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Bank pool... Systems or Rote?
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mjdoutdoors
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Bank pool... Systems or Rote? - 11-17-2019, 06:55 AM

I was just enjoying watching SVB and Thorpe in the 2019 US Open Bank Pool Championships and was wondering, are most pros using a system when banking or just rote experience when playing banks. They just seem to get up an fire them in with out much thought. I know several systems like using the diamonds, CJ's TIP"s, and the mirror system but it does not seem they are using much to line up. I rarely I see them line up a diamond with their stick, it seems mostly feel for them. I have been practicing banks a lot more lately and I am trying to learn more about how to execute banks. I understand when to add a touch of outside for countering throw and why most banks are hit with speed, but I don't understand why and when to shoot them with pocket speed unless for defensive proposes. I would love some input and fine tuning tips from good bank pool players here on AZ in an effort to improve my banks. Thanks
  
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11-17-2019, 06:59 AM

Rote...

Systems are a good reference tool/ ingredient, but given all the variables, can't do the job alone.
  
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11-17-2019, 07:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjdoutdoors View Post
I was just enjoying watching SVB and Thorpe in the 2019 US Open Bank Pool Championships and was wondering, are most pros using a system when banking or just rote experience when playing banks. They just seem to get up an fire them in with out much thought. I know several systems like using the diamonds, CJ's TIP"s, and the mirror system but it does not seem they are using much to line up. I rarely I see them line up a diamond with their stick, it seems mostly feel for them. I have been practicing banks a lot more lately and I am trying to learn more about how to execute banks. I understand when to add a touch of outside for countering throw and why most banks are hit with speed, but I don't understand why and when to shoot them with pocket speed unless for defensive proposes. I would love some input and fine tuning tips from good bank pool players here on AZ in an effort to improve my banks. Thanks
I've watched BT since he was a young kid. He learned systems i'm sure but he then played a LOT and they just became automatic. They've seen all these shots a gillion times and its just auto-pilot now. They do make it look easy.
  
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11-17-2019, 07:10 AM

I don't really believe in any system for banking personally (especially on diamond tables). Too many variations in bank exit angle depending of speed and spin to use a mirror system or diamond system reliably. They might get you in the ballpark, but for me, it's more about feel and visualization from executing (or attempting) thousands of bank shots in the past. I find I miss a lot more banks if I try to use the mirror method or diamond system. I do use the mirror system for kicks, but that's less reliable on diamond tables as well. Speed has more affect on kicks on diamond tables as well, and you have to use a hair more running English. You almost have to memorize how a ball will rebound off a rail at a given speed and English. Those guys have done that. They use different speeds and spin to avoid double kisses and alter shot angles for position on the next shot.

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11-17-2019, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Rote...

Systems are a good reference tool/ ingredient, but given all the variables, can't do the job alone.
Systems don't identify dead rails, that's for sure. Only hitting balls and a good memory will help there.

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11-17-2019, 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Rote...

Systems are a good reference tool/ ingredient, but given all the variables, can't do the job alone.
Yeah, this. For the past few years, about 95% of my pool playing (practice, really) has been bank shots. A system can give you a good starting or reference point, but then you have to "correct" for any given situation. And for me, that just comes with experience. After a while, you just start to "see" what needs to be done, to make the shot.


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11-17-2019, 11:35 AM

Started out with a system, grew to hitting 10's of thousands of banks and it became feel, is what a lot of bankers will tell you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjdoutdoors View Post
I was just enjoying watching SVB and Thorpe in the 2019 US Open Bank Pool Championships and was wondering, are most pros using a system when banking or just rote experience when playing banks. They just seem to get up an fire them in with out much thought. I know several systems like using the diamonds, CJ's TIP"s, and the mirror system but it does not seem they are using much to line up. I rarely I see them line up a diamond with their stick, it seems mostly feel for them. I have been practicing banks a lot more lately and I am trying to learn more about how to execute banks. I understand when to add a touch of outside for countering throw and why most banks are hit with speed, but I don't understand why and when to shoot them with pocket speed unless for defensive proposes. I would love some input and fine tuning tips from good bank pool players here on AZ in an effort to improve my banks. Thanks
  
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grindz
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11-17-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjdoutdoors View Post
Ö. I understand when to add a touch of outside for countering throw and why most banks are hit with speed, but I don't understand why and when to shoot them with pocket speed unless for defensive proposes. I would love some input and fine tuning tips from good bank pool players here on AZ in an effort to improve my banks. Thanks
A LOT of knowledge in 'the Beard"s book. Great for learning and practice IMO, and to build upon until you 'see' them. Severe back cut angle banks need 'pocket' speed and outside, or they just won't go.

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11-17-2019, 02:22 PM

Eddy Taylor didn't use a system and he was the best there ever was.

Bank takes lots of practice and experience.

Bill stroud
  
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11-17-2019, 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjdoutdoors View Post
I was just enjoying watching SVB and Thorpe in the 2019 US Open Bank Pool Championships and was wondering, are most pros using a system when banking or just rote experience when playing banks. They just seem to get up an fire them in with out much thought. I know several systems like using the diamonds, CJ's TIP"s, and the mirror system but it does not seem they are using much to line up. I rarely I see them line up a diamond with their stick, it seems mostly feel for them.
As you get better with a system it can also get abbreviated and faster to use - maybe even less conscious.

Quote:
I understand when to add a touch of outside for countering throw and why most banks are hit with speed, but I don't understand why and when to shoot them with pocket speed unless for defensive proposes.
1. to get shape
2. to maximize the rebound angle (without spin)
3. to increase spin transfer to the OB

pj
chgo
  
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11-17-2019, 03:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
As you get better with a system it can also get abbreviated and faster to use - maybe even less conscious.


1. to get shape
2. to maximize the rebound angle (without spin)
3. to increase spin transfer to the OB

pj
chgo
Also perhaps to avoid rattle-out.
  
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11-17-2019, 04:35 PM

John Brumback has a great DVD on this.
  
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11-17-2019, 05:47 PM

For the most part, Systems only work for one speed of shot at reasonably steep angles. Whether it be a bank or kick, as you change speed, english, angle and age of cloth the result changes. Then, to use your term, it becomes rote. Practiced and repeated.

Anyway, thatís my opinion.


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11-17-2019, 05:56 PM

From Robert Byrneís McGoorty.

Wille Hoppe did not use the diamond system...he developed it for teaching purposes.
...bank systems are the same, IMO....they get you started on the right path....
...but you have to go farther to be good...donít let them be your master.


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11-17-2019, 06:07 PM

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Originally Posted by DecentShot View Post
John Brumback has a great DVD on this.
He's a great banker of course, and he clearly shows how he does it in the DVD - I only wish he included more "why" with the "how to".

For more than you ever thought there was to know about that you can't do better than Dr. Dave's "resource page" for Banks and Kicks in Pool and Billiards.

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