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jay helfert
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11-18-2019, 09:10 PM

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Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
I would like to know what his eyesight was even when he was up in years. The accuracy with which he hit many of those shots not only required knowledge and a great stroke, they required eyes that would put an eagle to shame just to see the spots he needed to hit so precisely.

I had sampled the video when I did mention how dry he was. Not that bad especially after he got more comfortable with the camera. "This shot is tougher than eleven mother-in-laws, ... including mine!"

Some other comments too mentioning who he used the shot to clinch a victory against, he said making one shot almost got him ran out of town!

Great stuff, and a lot of banks mortals can make too. Some of Bug's banks, I might be one in twenty on with some practice. While I like watching other people make them I try to ignore shots that I think I am less than one in three or four to make and I don't shoot those unless I think they will make a major swing. Freeze the cue ball and the object ball on the same rail, then bank the ball! I see how it was done but I could wear out a few cubes of chalk and a tip trying to make that shot I believe, and it wasn't as hard as some he shot!

Hu
I'm sure they had to do more than one "take" on many of these shots. Even Bugs couldn't make them all on the first try. Bugs was a big, athletic looking guy who probably played sports in high school. I never knew anything about his past and i didn't know him that well either. Not like Freddie, that's for sure. Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh.


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uwate
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11-19-2019, 09:11 AM

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Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
So are you the fellow who’s wife was trying to get him to do house work, or the one who talked her out of it so the pool could continue? Either way you made some nice banks.
I was the one getting out of stuff to do lol. Actually from both her and my buddy Jimmy, who is the guy in the red shirt. He was trying to get me to go outdoors and go fishing on Sunday. Miami is incredible weather right now. Sunday it was sunny and in the low 70s. Fishing? beach? biking? nope, just bank pool all day.

just also want to add in that my buddy plays pretty sporty. Right out of the gates on sunday, in the first set he runs 3 and out the first game, then four and out in game two and then he breaks and ran another 3. Tough action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oprfntm49Q8&t

Last edited by uwate; 11-19-2019 at 09:19 AM.
  
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11-19-2019, 09:23 AM

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Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh.
that is so crazy! I knew he never owned a cue and just used whatever someone would lend him every time he played. Makes me wonder how he ever explained all the nights in the pool room to his family.
  
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measureman
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11-19-2019, 10:42 AM

I watched a YouTube video with a very good player explaining how he calculates a long table 1 rail kick shot.
Half way through the math I got lost.
He adjusted his calculation for worn cloth and humidity.
When he finally shot the kick he missed the object ball by six inches.
I shut the video off and figured i could do better by dead reckoning.
I bank by feel.


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Back up cue - Troy Downey

I woke up.
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The Truth: If you have a stroke the gear don't matter... If you don't have a stroke the gear won't help.
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  (#35)
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11-19-2019, 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by measureman View Post
I watched a YouTube video with a very good player explaining how he calculates a long table 1 rail kick shot.
Half way through the math I got lost.
He adjusted his calculation for worn cloth and humidity.
When he finally shot the kick he missed the object ball by six inches.
I shut the video off and figured i could do better by dead reckoning.
I bank by feel.

I feel the same way as you, but the flip side of that is that there are people whose minds ‘dwell’ in the more scientific mode and that is how they come to visualize their shots. I have a friend who studied the Beard’s books, and practiced for years on them, that still ‘calculates’ every shot and rarely misses by much. It helps that his Olhausen table has the rails they use, as I feel they are the most accurate I have ever played.

I can only commend those who can remember, and use all the systems and measurements..... I am surely not one of them.

Td
  
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11-19-2019, 12:45 PM

Truman was a great bank pool player.

Even he would admit Taylor was the best.

You would have to travel with him as I did to really understand how well he banked.

He showed me a proposition shot that he bet on that I tried many times.

Put a ball on the second diamond at the balk line and bank the ball in all 6 pockets without a miss. He could do it almost every time. Scary.

He used speed and Center ball to bank unless he needed English for position.

He knew every bank that was possible and every bank that was not.

Bill Stroud
  
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southernfried
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11-20-2019, 09:25 AM

Quick disclosure. I make no claim to being an expert. For one rail banks I use a system learned from Jimmy Reid which is a "basic divide by two" calculation. Tor Lowery has some videos out that shows this system and more. You can find free videos by both Jimmy Reid and Tor Lowery on YouTube that explain the banking system. To me, it is much simpler and easier to use then "mirror," "M&M," "extended rail,' etc. Like several other replies, I agree any system gets you in the ball park and experience teaches you what adjustments you make from there. Every table and every player is different and only time and practice will improve your shot making. Bottom line, the best system is the one that works for you. Check 'em out, then decide.
  
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11-20-2019, 10:40 AM

Freddy the Beard had some DVD's I believe, they were good foundation material. Problem even with instructional material is you need to go over it many time to absorbe the material being taught. Them because of variances from table to table, clean to dirty balls, RH (relative humidity) tempeture in a room, etc. If your experenced you can make the adjustment fast for conditions. Thus experience, and amount of practing of the banking skill is the key component IMHO.

I always had to laught when I use to do a lot of competitive long range Black Powder Shoting, it was like most sports. The same people alway did well. They in many case did not have the latest, great equiptment. But they could read conditions like breeze, wind, humidity, that all felt the flight of a bullet traveling 500 yards.

Again it is the Indian not the Arrow that is the reason certain Indians alway win.
  
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11-20-2019, 10:57 AM

If someone wanted to check out Freedie's works, would you recommend the video or the book?
  
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11-20-2019, 06:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxictom View Post
If someone wanted to check out Freedie's works, would you recommend the video or the book?
I'm learn more toward videos because I think the video is like a photo, worth 1,000 words. Plus you can watch about 5 0r 6 times, the more time you watch, the more you see.

Do not get me wrong, books are also great. One of the greatest books on making shot, and seeing shot was Ray Martins 99 Shots. Valuable resource.

But bottom line is read, watch, and No practice. You will not improve, practice is why people improve, and then the practice become memory.
  
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  (#41)
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11-20-2019, 07:12 PM

I'll second the subconscious/intuitive part of what has been said.

When I learned to play pool there was no Internet or even VHS. Growing up in the boonies I didn't yet have Willie's book or even know that books might have been available. Being a self taught kind of guy I just practiced 8 hours a day M-F and figured it out on my own. I had no clue there was any system to it but I did have geometry in high school and understood angles. I also had a couple years of physics under my belt and I think that gave me an edge as well.

After sometimes practicing nothing but banks for hours I eventually got to the point that I just looked at the CB, OB and the target pocket, got down and waited until I saw 'the spot' that I had to hit on the OB and stroked it in. I still use that process to this day and it works well enough that I can set up and repeatedly make the same shot over and over in practice. I don't have an explanation of why or how it works, but I am glad it does!

I have tried a couple of the systems for grins and they do not work as well for me but I can see how they would get the ball rolling (in the pocket; pun intended) for a beginner.


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11-20-2019, 07:36 PM

Depends on the shot. Some shots I calculate and then shoot. Other shots I calculate, then adjust by feel and rhen shoot. While others are all feel because of awkward angles.

Then again, if I'm in gear, I seldom look up to count anything...sadly, I don't find my lowly gear very often so, it's count, count and count again.

Jeff


I knew a fellow that thought he was a good boxer because he was in a position to befriend a lot of "professional boxers". It cost him azzwhippens till he realized he wasn't what he thought/wished he was.

Do you know anyone like the "wannabe" boxer in the pool world?
  
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I agree
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I agree - 11-21-2019, 05:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay helfert View Post
I'm sure they had to do more than one "take" on many of these shots. Even Bugs couldn't make them all on the first try. Bugs was a big, athletic looking guy who probably played sports in high school. I never knew anything about his past and i didn't know him that well either. Not like Freddie, that's for sure. Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh.

Jay, I agree that some of those banks no doubt took at least a few takes. I think even the phase of the moon had to be right to make some of those side pocket banks! Those two railers off of the end rail into the side pockets were the ones that really caught my eye. Some of them had a bigger window but some couldn't have had a much bigger window than a russian pyramid pocket. I don't think I would bet on myself making some of those shots one time in a dozen.

I also noticed that a lot of the banks would have missed on a pro cut Diamond. I don't know if that meant Bugs would have missed or if he would have shot them more carefully. Of course we weren't looking at Bugs in his prime here. I have read stories or excerpts of Bugs running out like rain from people that were on the receiving end.

Hu
  
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11-21-2019, 05:49 AM

in the eary 1970's i watched bugs play earl heisler $500 one pocket at the sports palace in new orleans
bugs hit a 4 railer and left the cue ball where earl would have run some balls if he missed but also in a spot where he could run balls if he made it
he made it and ran out......
i was an impressionable kid at the time
and this story could be embellished alittle from it happening a long time ago
but it was the most amazing shot under pressure i had ever seen.
sorry for the sidetrack....carry on
  
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11-21-2019, 06:15 AM

My friend son is a Board Certified General Surgeon, with a fellowship in Oncology Surgury. His scrolls was like 4 year premed, 4 year medical school, 5 year residency in General Surgery, then a year of practice in Korea, then 2 year of Oncology Surgury Fellowship. Yes he is military, but the point is he put a lot of time and effort into being something great,
  
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