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BC21
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11-22-2019, 03:45 PM

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Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
Like I said -- I never saw him play but have heard some first hand accounts and read quite a bit about him on AZ over the years. I wasn't saying he couldn't play as it's very clear that he was a very good player. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned him.

Just take a generic 14.1 player from 40 years ago and compare him to a great 9-ball player from the same era. This is where the origin of the "great shot maker" can be found. Most every town had multiple 100 ball runners but these guys couldn't keep up with the 9-ball shot makers.

Now since 14.1 has really died down -- you just don't find the great tacticianers (is that a word?) in the game like you used to. At least, I don't see them. 9 ball and 10 ball just don't allow that at the higher levels.

Now in the amateur ranks, does it exist? I can't remember the last time I saw an amateur player who pocketed balls so well in comparison to his positional play that it stood out to me. I haven't seen it in years. I guess maybe it shows up from time to time in bar table 8 ball but I can't think of a recent example.

So I think the shot-maker legend is largely a thing of the past.
You may be right. I used to see these types of players often back when I played the bar scene every weekend. As boxcar mentioned, these types are often a bit too cocky, with egos based soley on their ability to pocket about any shot they get. But they tend to hook themselves or scratch or miss a virtually impossible shot often enough to allow a player with more cb control to come out on top much more consistently.

I have a buddy that when he first started coming to the poolhall played every shot with "honest effort". He was never a safety player or a ball in hand player. He is a great shot maker, but playing pool isn't a shot-making contest. A few years ago he wised up and started incorporating a little safety play in his game instead of shooting at everything. But occasionally he reverts back to that 'go for it' mode and drills an unbelievable shot or two for the win.


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11-22-2019, 04:26 PM

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You may be right. I used to see these types of players often back when I played the bar scene every weekend. As boxcar mentioned, these types are often a bit too cocky, with egos based soley on their ability to pocket about any shot they get. But they tend to hook themselves or scratch or miss a virtually impossible shot often enough to allow a player with more cb control to come out on top much more consistently.

I have a buddy that when he first started coming to the poolhall played every shot with "honest effort". He was never a safety player or a ball in hand player. He is a great shot maker, but playing pool isn't a shot-making contest. A few years ago he wised up and started incorporating a little safety play in his game instead of shooting at everything. But occasionally he reverts back to that 'go for it' mode and drills an unbelievable shot or two for the win.
And that is why, with the exception of golf, tennis, baseball, cross country track, shot put, and rugby, pool is one of the best games in the world.
  
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I dont understand??? - 11-22-2019, 05:57 PM

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Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
I think the "great shot maker" is a thing of the past. The term was really directed at 9 ball players from one-pocket and 14.1 specialists. In the past, I think you could be a great 14.1 player without truly being a great shot maker. I think of someone like Dick Lane. Not that I ever saw him play bit I've heard stories. Today, with rotation games setting the standard, it's just not possible to hide your pocketing deficiencies.

Even at the lower levels, I just don't see any players that can pocket balls really well but don't understand how to move the cue ball around.
There are plenty of "great shot Makers" the fact that everybody is playing on these OVERLY TIGHT POCKETS, means that we are seeing shot making that wasn't required 20+ years ago, even though the position play has improved.

You think Busty doesn't shoot straight, Wu, Ko, Corey, Jung, Chang, SVB, Rafael..,

They all play very good position, but they have to because of the conditions they play under, put them on a Gandy with 5'' pockets and they may never miss
  
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11-22-2019, 06:25 PM

King T -- off course you're right. How does that contradict what I said?

Look I think the ball pocketing to shot making ratio is the most important data for the player to understand. Pool is funny because as you get better, you aren't faced with as many difficult shots, so one has to pay specific attention to their potting skills or they will not advance.
  
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Well..., - 11-22-2019, 06:39 PM

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Originally Posted by BasementDweller View Post
King T -- off course you're right. How does that contradict what I said?

Look I think the ball pocketing to shot making ratio is the most important data for the player to understand. Pool is funny because as you get better, you aren't faced with as many difficult shots, so one has to pay specific attention to their potting skills or they will not advance.
I might have misunderstood, but I don't think the great shoot makers are dead, I just think it depends on the equipment you catch these guys on. Corey came to Houston and played on a table that everyone stayed away from and ran out like water. It was a table setup for One Pocket, like the tables used to be at Hollywood Billiards in LA, he played 9 ball on that table and never missed.

I think there are more shot makers are still as plentiful, Check out Shane vs Rafael on YouTube!
  
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11-22-2019, 07:16 PM

You misunderstood King T. The OP is talking about great shot makers that play less than stellar position. All those shot makers you mentioned do both very very well.
  
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11-22-2019, 07:23 PM

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I might have misunderstood, but I don't think the great shoot makers are dead, I just think it depends on the equipment you catch these guys on. Corey came to Houston and played on a table that everyone stayed away from and ran out like water. It was a table setup for One Pocket, like the tables used to be at Hollywood Billiards in LA, he played 9 ball on that table and never missed.

I think there are more shot makers are still as plentiful, Check out Shane vs Rafael on YouTube!
Pro players are certainly great shot makers. It's the part time player I was curious about, the type that you catch one night in a bar room drinking beers and living it up with friends. You watch them play, amused a little at how much fun they can have playing a game that none of them can play very well. Then you notice one player among them that on the surface looks just as bad as the rest of them, as far as cb control and anything that resembles pattern play or good position play, but this player is making some very impressive shots. Then a couple weeks later you see the same guy or gal making every open shot they get, but playing pot luck position. Eventually you notice this guy on a league night playing for an average or below average team. He pockets balls like an A player but seldom leaves the cb where an A player would leave it. He's played this way for years, created a habit of it.

These are the type of shot makers I'm wondering about...are they a dying breed? Does anyone see these types of players much anymore? I think joining a league, watching better players, utilizing YouTube and other online instruction/information (either through pressure from friends or a personal desire to win more) is basically weeding out these types of players. Without this stuff, this influence or desire to play better, they'd go their whole life playing the local bars on Friday and Saturday nights, shooting at everything with little regard for cb control, making about every open shot they get, beating most bar bangers out of beers or five dollar bills. At least until some league player catches him one night and asks, "Hey man, you ever play on a pool league? You could win a trip to Vegas." And that's the hook that might eventually pull this player out of his haphazard position play. And as long as he retains his ball pocketing skills when or if he starts trying to control whitey better, he'll be ok. If not, he'll revert back or stick to his old way of playing, just make the shot and get another shot, any shot.


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