What would be wrong with notifying Baretta she didn't catch a rail? The rule says you can't notify the incoming player. Gambling I wouldn't say a word but in a setting like that what would be wrong with telling Baretta?
Loree Jon Snooze - what would you have done?
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What would be wrong with notifying Baretta she didn't catch a rail? The rule says you can't notify the incoming player. Gambling I wouldn't say a word but in a setting like that what would be wrong with telling Baretta?
Who are you referring to telling her she committed a foul. Yes, obviously the observing opponent certainly should have done so, but without a referee presiding over the match, it is not proper for anyone else to tell her. Are you suggesting someone observing the match sitting nearby discreetly approaching JB in her chair and letting her know she fouled? That's still putting the onus on her to call the foul on herself, which is not all that appropriate, as she's apparently already made the decision to say nothing, so why lay a guilt trip on her by putting her on the spot? It is actually quite impressive that the observing crowd was apparently knowledgeable enough that no one blurted out that she failed to get a rail. If that had occurred, it would have been an interesting situation as to how they would handle it, but I assume she would have then taken the BIH.
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That is nonsensical technicality.
That is like saying if the audience witness actor A actually murder actor B on a theatre stage, audience have to keep quiet because only the 2 actors can interact with each other
This calling foul on oneself is just stupid rule. I would not trust anyone (including myself) to call foul on themselves in a big match final with big stakes.
Refs should be compulsory for big matches. In absence of ref, videos or audience should be witness
I don't think this poll is clear enough. It does say imagine you are in JB's shoes, but some people may interpret that as "What would I do if these same circumstances showed up in MY GAME". In other words, I'm at league playing a 2. It's not that serious of a game, and so the "politeness" is more important than the result of the game. If I viewed the situation like that, in the context of myself playing a game I would find myself in, which wouldn't be that serious, then of course it seems dickish to not tell your opponent you fouled if they didn't notice it.
I think it's truly hard for people to really put themselves in JB's shoes, in the context of a close match in a professional tournament with another top professional player. It's not as simple as people want to make it out to be.
If you are going to be a champion at anything, you need to view the situation and your opponent differently than when you are an amateur shooting in some pointless league or weekly tournament. Being nice, to a certain extent, is weakness, and won't get you very far You need tenacity and ruthlessness when playing, obviously without cheating or distracting your opponent when they are at the table.
I respect players that do whatever it takes to win, without being unprofessional or breaking the rules, of course. Acting in ones self-interest to obliterate their opponent is not a sin, as long as it's within the rules and you aren't interfering with your opponent's shots.
This was an obvious foul, to everyone in the room. Loree Jon was looking right at the shot when it happened. Why would JB initially think she would have to let Loree Jon know it was a foul? I think JB respects Loree Jon enough to think that she clearly knew it was a foul without her having to say something or move the cue ball.
Now, when JB noticed that Loree Jon didn't know it was a foul, noone knows. But at this point, you have to put it into context. You are a professional pool player. This is your living, and you take each match as seriously as you possibly can. You know your opponent is a world class player, and it's the end of a really close match. You know Loree Jon doesn't need her hand held. She saw the shot, she knows the rules. Why is it my (JB's) job to make sure she knows she has ball in hand? It's in Loree Jon's self interest for the foul to be called, noone else's. If she saw the shot just as well as JB did, then it should be up to her to claim ball in hand, unless the rules say otherwise.
With that said, I'm not against putting something specific in the rules that says the shooting player has to call fouls on themselves. But when no rule exists, then A) it's not against the rules, so it isn't cheating, and B) nothing unethical was done, because she followed the rules, she didn't disguise the foul or lie about it, and she didn't cause Loree Jon's lapse in judgement or attentiveness that resulted in her not taking ball in hand.
I think it's truly hard for people to really put themselves in JB's shoes, in the context of a close match in a professional tournament with another top professional player. It's not as simple as people want to make it out to be.
If you are going to be a champion at anything, you need to view the situation and your opponent differently than when you are an amateur shooting in some pointless league or weekly tournament. Being nice, to a certain extent, is weakness, and won't get you very far You need tenacity and ruthlessness when playing, obviously without cheating or distracting your opponent when they are at the table.
I respect players that do whatever it takes to win, without being unprofessional or breaking the rules, of course. Acting in ones self-interest to obliterate their opponent is not a sin, as long as it's within the rules and you aren't interfering with your opponent's shots.
This was an obvious foul, to everyone in the room. Loree Jon was looking right at the shot when it happened. Why would JB initially think she would have to let Loree Jon know it was a foul? I think JB respects Loree Jon enough to think that she clearly knew it was a foul without her having to say something or move the cue ball.
Now, when JB noticed that Loree Jon didn't know it was a foul, noone knows. But at this point, you have to put it into context. You are a professional pool player. This is your living, and you take each match as seriously as you possibly can. You know your opponent is a world class player, and it's the end of a really close match. You know Loree Jon doesn't need her hand held. She saw the shot, she knows the rules. Why is it my (JB's) job to make sure she knows she has ball in hand? It's in Loree Jon's self interest for the foul to be called, noone else's. If she saw the shot just as well as JB did, then it should be up to her to claim ball in hand, unless the rules say otherwise.
With that said, I'm not against putting something specific in the rules that says the shooting player has to call fouls on themselves. But when no rule exists, then A) it's not against the rules, so it isn't cheating, and B) nothing unethical was done, because she followed the rules, she didn't disguise the foul or lie about it, and she didn't cause Loree Jon's lapse in judgement or attentiveness that resulted in her not taking ball in hand.
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The poll is very clear. If someone wants to add a bunch of personal interpretative and situational caveats to their thought process that's their prerogative.
"What would you have done" is about as vague as you can get. I'll admit, it does imply that it's the exact same situation. But is it you, a non-professional who doesn't rely on pool as income, or are you JB, a professional who takes the result much more seriously than you would?
Maybe it's not the poll's fault, but that doesn't mean the people answering the poll are answering the exact same question, and if they aren't, then the results are less meaningful.
How do you know that she knew nothing hit the rail? If LJ missed it, what makes you think Jennifer didn't also miss it?
You are acting like she knew something her opponent didn't and tried to hide it. The foul was obvious to everyone in the room. Loree Jon watched the shot... She had just as much information about how the shot played out as JB did. JB didn't hide anything, and didn't do anything deceptive. If her opponent watches a shot play out and doesn't realize it's a foul, how are you not blaming the opponent for the lapse in judgement or attentiveness to their own match, especially when she's top professional player?
Baretta has been playing in tournaments over 20 years. She knew she fouled.
I gotta agree with you. In many cases your perception can be clouded by what you expect to see instead of what actually happened . I did not see the shot in question but sometimes when several balls are in motion it can be hard to believe nothing hit a rail even though that may be the case. When a person shoots at 1 ball and only 2 balls are in motion especially at slow speed someone tends to really focus on a ball getting a rail, when several are in motion sometimes its not as obvious and neither player notices or remembers if a rail was hit.
Loree Jon turned pro when she was 11 and has been playing tournaments for almost 40 years and didn't realize there was a foul so....
Unless you think LJ knew it was a foul but just chose to play the ball where it was.