What would you shoot here? (8-ball)

Celtic · Jun 20, 2009

Curious what most people would do here, you are stripes, your opponent left you here with a safety.

On a Valley 7 foot, your opponent is up 4-2 race to 5 alternate break and it is their break next in a match worth $300.

This was my last turn at the table this year in the VNEA singles.

BRKNRUN · Jun 20, 2009

You are supposed to lose if you end up in this position....but you do have easy two rail kick to hit the 11.

I would kick two rails behind the 11...calling it in the lower left corner pocket....and hope that I both make the ball 1-100 (or so) shot...AND hope the the CB lands in a position that gives me a shot in the lower right hand pocket....

Most probable outcomes....(I hit the 11 every time)....I miss the 11 and end up with perfect shape on the 8...........or I make the 11 and end up stone hooked on the 8.....or I make the 11 and get perfect shape on the 8, but since I misjuged the kick I end up making the 11 in the UPPER left corner pocket.

The other option is the long kick (either 1 or two rails) and try two make the 11 (or hang the 11) in the upper right hand corner pocket.

(I would opt for the first option as I can measure up and have more control on the accuracy of the hit on the 11 via the shorter kick)

TX Poolnut · Jun 20, 2009

You're in deep doo doo.

Call the lower left pocket, two-rail below the 11-ball, and pray like you've never prayed before.

senor · Jun 20, 2009

I like the one rail kick for a couple of reasons. I think you'll make it more often than the two rail kick, and if the cue ball speed is right, it appears you'll have a shot at the 8 ball. The other reason I like the shot is because if missed, it could block the pocket for your opponent and/or tie up a ball and possibly get you another chance at the table.

At the same time there are reasons I don't like the two railer. Although it is obviously easier to hit, moving the 11 to the other side of the table will make winning easier for your opponent. First, it moves the 11 completely out of the way and all of your opponents object balls will have a clear path. Also, if the 11 finds the bottom rail, your opponent doesn't even have to completely hook you to leave you an in an unenviable position.

Double-Dave · Jun 20, 2009

I would probably make a foul by playing the 3 towards the rail just below the center pocket and try and tie up the 7 and 11 on the same rail aswell.

gr. Dave

ArizonaPete · Jun 20, 2009

I'd go for the long rail kick to make the eleven. Hit slow, if the eleven goes, then the cue ball will ease between the 4 and 2 ball and end up either on or near the cushion for the eight in the side. If you miss and the cue ball is on the cushion, he's got a tough shot to make. By the way, I assume this happened in a match, what did you do?

Ironman317 · Jun 20, 2009

i think i would push the 8 towards the one and try and tie them up. it's not a simple out even with ball in hand with the 11 there. it's a bad spot for sure, but i would take my chances here and hope i get another shot in a better situation.

PoolSharkAllen · Jun 20, 2009

The chances of pocketing the 11 with a one or two rail kick and then getting decent position on the 8 are very slim. So the next best option is to play a strong safe.

I would call a safety and play a one-rail kick shot on the 11 with medium speed. With some luck, you'll either pocket the 11 or leave it hanging near the upper right corner pocket. After the cue ball hits the 11, it should hopefully roll up close to the 4 leaving solids with no good shot or a very difficult layout to run out.

poolplayer2093 · Jun 20, 2009

i think you have to go for the 11 kicking 2 rails. you have to get a little lucky but that's your only chance of winning the game from that position.

tying something up isn't going to do you any good because he could play safe shooting a ball into what ever you tied up and put you back in the same position

Patrick Johnson · Jun 20, 2009

..........

Celtic · Jun 20, 2009

ArizonaPete said:
what did you do?

It got called right quick. I played the 2 rail kick into the lower left hand corner, the path of the cueball off the kick sending it into the 2 ball and leaving me a cut on the 8 in the lower side pocket.

CueTable Help

Then he broke and ran a tough rack to win the set.

The safety might have worked against some people, not this guy though, he played very well and very smart.

grindz · Jun 20, 2009

Celtic said:
Curious what most people would do here, you are stripes, your opponent left you here with a safety.

CueTable Help

On a Valley 7 foot, your opponent is up 4-2 race to 5 alternate break and it is their break next in a match worth $300.

This was my last turn at the table this year in the VNEA singles.

If you're a good kicker.... gotta go with the 2 rail (short then long) to play in top right corner... you have help with the 4. If you aren't then play the 7-11 combo to leave the 11 on the 4 and between it and the pocket. Then pray...... If he/she bunts back a safe, try and cluster 2 other balls.
If not comfortable with above, then 2 rail (right then top) behind the 11 hitting top edge and drift CB up table (to the right) and leave some longer shots with the 11 still in the cluster.

JMO, what did you do??

td

Ooops ....too late.... you've already answered.

dabarbr · Jun 20, 2009

Against any decent player any safety or giving up ball in hand is most likely a sure loss. You need to go for the win right now.

The two rail kick from the short rail to the long rail is too much of a long shot even for good kickers. And even if it went there is not much chance for shape on the eight.

IMO the one rail kick gives the best chance to pocket your ball. Because the ball is so close to the pocket just by hitting it and driving it forward it has a good chance because the pocket occupies so much of that area. The cue ball may slide between his two balls and position itself for a shot on the eight.

With fair speed, if you don't pocket your ball, you may also lay your ball up to control that pocket and limit access to that pocket. No matter what you select you are on the short end of this.

P.S. or you can just shoot the eight into the side pocket and put yourself out of misery.

Craig Fales · Jun 20, 2009

Just rake the balls and say "Nice shot." j/k...the kick down and back sounds like your only option.

CreeDo · Jun 21, 2009

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this? You do your best to hit the upper half of the 11 somewhat thin. I know it's asking a lot but it's the best option because it gives you 2 chances to win. You leave distance with the cue ball, and the 11 goes into the middle of several solids and hopefully ties something up.

CueTable Help

sixpack · Jun 21, 2009

CueTable Help

I think the other kicks are losers even if they are succesful exactly as planned.

Hit a little harder than lag speed with a touch (just a touch, no more) of running (right) english.
This kick gives you a better chance to win in every case. If you graze the 11 it moves the 11 into traffic and blocks your opponent's balls. It also puts the CB in a good spot.

If you hit the 11 too full, then it might block the pocket and put the CB in the trouble.

It's possible to leave a makeable shot with this kick, and, of course giving up BIH is death. But this is how I would shoot it.

~rc

Neil · Jun 21, 2009

...............

chin0 · Jun 21, 2009

I would shoot mace into my opponents eye, grab the stash and dash lol, jk. I like the two rail as well. The one rail might be an option as well. Personally I would've went for the one rail.

CreeDo · Jun 22, 2009

Neil said:
That looks good for THAT turn. But, think ahead a little... what do you think he is going to do to you when you do that?? Odds are, you will be giving up ball in hand after your next turn at the table. You really have no choice but to try and make the 11, or at least get it out where you can make it if he happens to screw up enough to miss and leave you something.

so you're saying your position might be basically the same, or it might have improved. It certainly won't be any worse unless he's fairly lucky and freezes you against something.

I don't like trying to make it, there is a much larger margin for error on the kick safety (like you can hit it too full and have the CB skip to the long rail) than there is for making it AND getting the cue ball to fall in that window on the 8, which is 1 in a zillion.

Give your opponent enough rope to hang himself. Forget that stuff about going down swinging or 'don't sell out on a false safety'. What's more likely? An impossible dream flyer goes in with shape and you win? Or the opponent dogs his shot/safe attempt because he's 6-7 feet away from the nearest object ball?

blah blah · Jun 22, 2009

this is why...

I love AZB. All of the different ideas, viewpoints, jokes, bantering. Every post here made my Monday morning a little brighter. : )

And Celtic- props for getting out from there!

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