Making a Fair Game

mikeyfrost

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
A lot of time in the pool hall people have money in their pocket and want to put it in play. Now you are looking for action. Tailor your responses relative to your speed all the way from fish to champion to the simple question below.

How do you go about making a fair game? What are the main considerations? Why is it so hard for people to make a game?

Does the guy with the gold make the rules? I generally have more money than game so to me that's a big consideration. Why make any kind of game with the guy you can win maybe 1 set from?

What about getting staked? If a guy will bet more do you give a little more of a spot than you would if you were on your own dime? A lot of people say they do, but I think it's fundamentally impossible to treat someone else's money the way you would your own. It's a hypothetical theory that I don't believe can be proved,

The scenarios all vary but logically what are the steps needed to make a complete assessment and proposal to find that mythical "action."
 
Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
mikeyfrost said:
A lot of time in the pool hall people have money in their pocket and want to put it in play. Now you are looking for action. Tailor your responses relative to your speed all the way from fish to champion to the simple question below.

How do you go about making a fair game? What are the main considerations? Why is it so hard for people to make a game?

Does the guy with the gold make the rules? I generally have more money than game so to me that's a big consideration. Why make any kind of game with the guy you can win maybe 1 set from?

What about getting staked? If a guy will bet more do you give a little more of a spot than you would if you were on your own dime? A lot of people say they do, but I think it's fundamentally impossible to treat someone else's money the way you would your own. It's a hypothetical theory that I don't believe can be proved,

The scenarios all vary but logically what are the steps needed to make a complete assessment and proposal to find that mythical "action."
Click to expand...

Nobody likes to lose their $$$ and too few enjoy true gambling. This is the biggest hurdle to making games; most won't go unless they feel like they have it all locked up.

The main consideration for me is whether I have *a fair chance* to win if I play well. So getting reliable info on a prospective opponent's speed is paramount. If no reliable info can be had then I will play cheap while trying to gauge their speed. Only the really good ones can hide it - it takes a lot more than a pair of painter's overalls. :wink:

Having a good rapport with the room's owner or staff can be real helpful.

There is a def shortage of players that look for the thrill you get from putting your money at true risk.

best,
brian kc
 
mr3cushion

mr3cushion

Regestered User
Silver Member
In 3 Cushion making a gambling game is real simple, for most of the known players that gamble!

If player A makes 40 points in 50 innings and player B makes 50 points in 50 innings the fair 'games' would be. One game player A gets 9 points on 50, the other game He gets 11 on 50. Regardless of who ever wins the first game and how it's played.

Or they could just simply play with player A getting 10 on 50 every game!
 
cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
The problem is normally nobody wants to make a fair game. They want easy money. To me, I just want a chance to win. If I'm matching up with someone I know I just want to know that if I play my best I will win and if I play good or average I have a chance. I'm old fashioned and not sweating the money.
 
2strong4u

2strong4u

Banned
I am typically the one pressing the action in my pool hall. I make good money so I have it, maybe that's why I have heart (because I don't have to play for rent or groceries). The problem with action is that many guys will not play unless they have the lock. So I will give up the breaks to stir things up, with or without a ball spot. Maybe offer them the 8 and a game or the 7 ball, so they get to choose the spot. I gave one guy the breaks, the 7and 8 and he could take ball in hand after the break...too much to refuse. He lost that day:smile:.

Lately the owner will put people in to play me. The games are closer, he won't back Mickey Mouse. I think the players bear down just as much on his money as theirs in the beginning. I do think when they are behind though, the pressure mounts and they are more apt to fold like a lawn chair from the internal pressure. It's like when a guy has his woman with him and we play. Having her as a cheerleader does him little good, especially if she is reaching into her purse to pay off. Who needs that kind of pressure??
 
mikeyfrost

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
In my opinion out running the nuts is playing in a game where if you play your very best you have a CHANCE to win. There is nothing fair about that to me.

If you are in action where your average game can't win SOME of the time than you are a fish. I'm not in the business of taking the last 2 when I need the 6 ball because I ate my wheaties that morning and sat in the sun on a park bench.

My whole point with this thread is over time we are conditioning ourselves to give up the nuts or try to fade them just because we want action. Information is at a premium. If you're not good enough to play strangers than you should just probably never play strangers anything more than a game you feel like you could beat by yourself.

How many times do you see a game going on where you'd bet on either side to win? Almost never right. Usually it's a "Player A is stealing" type situation. Usually the better the players the worse the games being made are. There is as big a gap at the top as their is at the bottom except less players to distribute the difference over.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I made a fair game once....never forgave myself. :eek:

I like to gamble by the rules of poker....
...I try to make a royal flush look like a busted flush.
If someone wants a good game from me, he better be a good negotiator
or have a bankroll that makes me step out.

I've had people tell me they just want a fair game...I tell them...
..."It's your money, keeping it in your pocket is fair."

Game-making was one of the reasons I enjoyed the road.
...went outta town to a pool hall once with a friend...he had 25% of my
action...we agreed that if the guy wouldn't play even...I'd give him the 8.
Soon as I walked in the door, the guy asked to to play even...
...I flipped on him, accused him of trying to rob me...:angry:

As we were racking them up with ME getting the 8....I heard my friend
say under his breath...."You %$#& bandit!"

Three stakehorses later, I was GIVING him the 8...and robbing. :happydance:
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Fair Game?

mikeyfrost said:
A lot of time in the pool hall people have money in their pocket and want to put it in play. Now you are looking for action. Tailor your responses relative to your speed all the way from fish to champion to the simple question below.

How do you go about making a fair game? What are the main considerations? Why is it so hard for people to make a game?

Does the guy with the gold make the rules? I generally have more money than game so to me that's a big consideration. Why make any kind of game with the guy you can win maybe 1 set from?

What about getting staked? If a guy will bet more do you give a little more of a spot than you would if you were on your own dime? A lot of people say they do, but I think it's fundamentally impossible to treat someone else's money the way you would your own. It's a hypothetical theory that I don't believe can be proved,

The scenarios all vary but logically what are the steps needed to make a complete assessment and proposal to find that mythical "action."
Click to expand...

Fair Game? I'm really not sure it exists. Gambling exists, there are chances of losing and winning. In the world I grew up in you started out cheap playing heads up and the guy with the speed hid it all he could, this often caused him to make a loser to which the other Gambler just had to bet it up because he couldnt stand it if he didnt. That was the way the other guy got his money back and then some.

When someone asks me for a game, a fair game I havent got time for it because they want a lock on my money. I don't owe anyone a shot at my money unless I want theirs and I really don't. Its leased money anyway. The least you have the more you feel like gambling it. The more you have the least you feel like losing it.
 
DAVE_M

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cleary said:
The problem is normally nobody wants to make a fair game. They want easy money. To me, I just want a chance to win. If I'm matching up with someone I know I just want to know that if I play my best I will win and if I play good or average I have a chance. I'm old fashioned and not sweating the money.
Click to expand...

+1

The problem is this:

Player A needs weight from Player B
If Player B spotted Player A 3 games to 9, it would be fair.
But since Player A is being spotted, he wants 5 games to 9, so he is a lock to win.
 
D

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
2strong4u said:
I am typically the one pressing the action in my pool hall. I make good money so I have it, maybe that's why I have heart (because I don't have to play for rent or groceries). The problem with action is that many guys will not play unless they have the lock. So I will give up the breaks to stir things up, with or without a ball spot. Maybe offer them the 8 and a game or the 7 ball, so they get to choose the spot. I gave one guy the breaks, the 7and 8 and he could take ball in hand after the break...too much to refuse. He lost that day:smile:.

Lately the owner will put people in to play me. The games are closer, he won't back Mickey Mouse. I think the players bear down just as much on his money as theirs in the beginning. I do think when they are behind though, the pressure mounts and they are more apt to fold like a lawn chair from the internal pressure. It's like when a guy has his woman with him and we play. Having her as a cheerleader does him little good, especially if she is reaching into her purse to pay off. Who needs that kind of pressure??
Click to expand...

Having the funds don't mean you got heart. Playing for the rent or groceries takes more heart. IMO.
 
Eric.

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
The fair game doesn't have to be a myth.

For 99.44% of the ppl looking for a game, action is not their way of making a living (excluding a few suckers that think they can make it in Pool). Most are in it for entertainment, practice or they are action junkies. that said, why get into bad games? If you dont like it, a simple "im good" works.

of course, if you can't help yourself and just got to get in action, then you take what you can get. That includes bad games. Hey, thats why they call it gambling...


Eric
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
mikeyfrost said:
A lot of time in the pool hall people have money in their pocket and want to put it in play. Now you are looking for action. Tailor your responses relative to your speed all the way from fish to champion to the simple question below.

How do you go about making a fair game? What are the main considerations? Why is it so hard for people to make a game?

Does the guy with the gold make the rules? I generally have more money than game so to me that's a big consideration. Why make any kind of game with the guy you can win maybe 1 set from?

What about getting staked? If a guy will bet more do you give a little more of a spot than you would if you were on your own dime? A lot of people say they do, but I think it's fundamentally impossible to treat someone else's money the way you would your own. It's a hypothetical theory that I don't believe can be proved,

The scenarios all vary but logically what are the steps needed to make a complete assessment and proposal to find that mythical "action."
Click to expand...
If I trust the person to be fair with me, I will give him pretty much what he wants and maybe try to out run the nuts. I will give the game a fair try before asking to adjust. I have no illusions of making a score here, I want a tough game I can really get into to. If I can break even I am perfectly happy.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Unless you have a lot game, I don't, I think the best way to find a fair game for both sides are people you played against in a tournament. Since you were not gambling at the time, just trying to win a match you have a pretty good idea of how you match up.
 
mikeyfrost

mikeyfrost

Socially Aware
Silver Member
I asked this question in the pool room last night and I got some really interesting answers. The most interesting one was if you are the one looking for action you should never be asking for a spot at all, only offering. I was like damn that's deep...

2 hours later I was getting hijacked after he asked for about 3 balls more spot than he needed. What made me laugh about it was the spot was so big, you coulda slowed down quite a bit and kept me interested. Now the only thing that happened is he won $100, I learned his game, and now he can only get played with those 3 balls back for much higher stakes.

I did appreciate the game though, the 2 games I managed to win were well worth the payoff.
 
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