Calling Joss Experts ???

MVPCues

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A cue came to me for a butt cap repair and a new linen wrap. It was in a case with a Mcdermott D16, which is listed to be from 1984 to 1990. This cue in question certainly has some age to it, but it's unknown whether it dates as far back as the Mcdermott. The finish on the cue is in quite good shape (way better shape than the Mcdermott), but the white with green linen wrap appeared rather vintage and quite dirty. There were multiple toothpick holes, so the wrap, despite being old, was most likely not original. No markings under the wrap, maple handle.

This could be a totally run of the mill Joss, but I thought I would ask given the possible age.

MaybeJoss1_1280.JPG




MaybeJoss2_1280.JPG


The butt cap is 1.5" in length. There were no markings on it, but the marking could have been in the area that was completely chipped away. The butt sleeve is 2 11/16" long. The handle is just shy of 12 7/16" long. The tenon the butt cap fit on was quite short, the cap primarily retained by the bolt as expected. The original bumper shown is on the short side compared to the 1" bumpers sold today (hard to tell if it was cut down, but possible), but otherwise unremarkable.

MaybeJoss3_1280.JPG


The OD of the pin is .2975. Projection is 1.05". Joint and butt sizes are pretty standard, .840 to 1.25" (or just shy), 29" long.

MaybeJoss4_1280.JPG


I suspect the ferrule to be original. It has a very fine weave, and has yellowed some with age. The ferrule/shaft transition is quite good. The shaft is very straight grained and dead straight.
 
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bigjay

Bigjay
Silver Member
It appears to have a Schon pilot styled insert . Schon cues have shorter tenon for butt caps that were made from delrin.
The older Joss cues also used a different weight bolt with a hex head not screw slot.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Based on the size of the joint screw, black silver and black ring. The brass pilot with wood sticking out.I would have guessed It's George.
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael Webb said:
Based on the size of the joint screw, black silver and black ring. The brass pilot with wood sticking out.I would have guessed It's George.
Click to expand...

Holy cow. I own an It's George, was my first cue, I knew they used the undersized pin like Schon, and I never even considered It's George.

The only thing is It's George butts were always larger than 1.25", as far as I know. Mine definitely is.
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MVPCues said:
Holy cow. I own an It's George, was my first cue, I knew they used the undersized pin like Schon, and I never even considered It's George.

The only thing is It's George butts were always larger than 1.25", as far as I know. Mine definitely is.
Click to expand...


Team work my friend. I have the joint screws and I make inserts as I need them. It could also be Schick
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael Webb said:
Team work my friend. I have the joint screws and I make inserts as I need them. It could also be Schick
Click to expand...

Yes, you sent me a couple inserts and screws years ago when I first started working and wanted to make some my own joint protectors for my cue.

The butt sleeve length of my it's george matches. It's george did make a lot of cues without rings above/below the wrap. But, my joint pin is the .302 OD, and would be from the same time frame as the cue in question. Also, the pin projection on my cue is .9". The projection on said cue is a little long at 1.05". Maybe this varied, but the pin projection looked a little long to me for 5/16-14, which is why I posted the measurement. Also, the metal portion of the pilot on the insert of my George is shorter with more of a chamfer than a large radius that is on the unkonwn cue. So a couple things are a match, but some fine details don't.


Update: The ferrule materials between my It's George and this cue are different (looked at them under 45x). It's George called their version of lbm Ivor-tech, and didn't change in the early days that I know of. Hardly proof, but a little more evidence to suggest it isn't a George.
 
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Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MVPCues said:
Yes, you sent me a couple inserts and screws years ago when I first started working and wanted to make some my own joint protectors for my cue.

The butt sleeve length of my it's george matches. It's george did make a lot of cues without rings above/below the wrap. But, my joint pin is the .302 OD, and would be from the same time frame as the cue in question. Also, the pin projection on my cue is .9". The projection on said cue is a little long at 1.05". Maybe this varied, but the pin projection looked a little long to me for 5/16-14, which is why I posted the measurement. Also, the metal portion of the pilot on the insert of my George is shorter with more of a chamfer than a large radius that is on the unkonwn cue. So a couple things are a match, but some fine details don't.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Based on the pin length is why I added Mr. Schick to the mix.
 
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bstroud

Deceased
I made some cues that look like this but the butt screw did not have the lines and the joint pin was never so long.

Shaft insert looks I would have done.

Bill S.
 
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Sunchaser

Sunchaser

Belgian Malinois
Silver Member
I think it's a Schick, or Schon. Funny part is I own a Joss that is it's twin...with Joss on the black collars no silver ring. Cue looks great now good job. Matt D.
 
MVPCues

MVPCues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bstroud said:
I made some cues that look like this but the butt screw did not have the lines and the joint pin was never so long.

Shaft insert looks I would have done.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

Much thanks for replying Bill. Those two details would seem to be the identifying keys.
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sunchaser said:
I think it's a Schick, or Schon. Funny part is I own a Joss that is it's twin...with Joss on the black collars no silver ring. Cue looks great now good job. Matt D.
Click to expand...

Show me a Joss with metal rings in the joint collars.

.
 
Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bstroud said:
I made some cues that look like this but the butt screw did not have the lines and the joint pin was never so long.

Shaft insert looks I would have done.

Bill S.
Click to expand...

So nice to see you commenting. Thank you :smile:

Aside from what you point out, can you comment on whether or not you ever used metal rings in joint collars when you were with Joss?

Also, what about your JossWest cues?

Perhaps maybe some other efforts you were involved in? I think some Eurowest cues used metal rings, but thicker than this.

At this point, I don't recall ever seeing a Joss with metal rings in the joint collars. Of course...I could be wrong.

.
 
cuenut

cuenut

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I vote It's George, Schick, or Wheeler. Goes well with you living in Central La.
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sunchaser said:
If you read my post you'll see I stated mine has Joss on black collars and no silver rings. I never saw a Joss with silver rings either.
Click to expand...


Sometimes I read things differently too. Just not this time. I figured Doc was having a tuff day. :grin-square:
 
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