Elbow Alignment

Rogue8ball

Rogue8ball

Registered
Hi all,
In the pictures provided, you can see Billy Thorpe and Dennis Orcullo. Their elbow is to the inside of their shot. I realize for them it is okay for their mechanics.

Is this a flaw that can be worked with if it exists as it does in my mechanics or something I should invest heavy time in to relearning?

Thanks for any information!
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M.Kitzman
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think the key is whether or not your forearm is vertical throughout your stroke, which might need different elbow positions depending on your personal physiology. If it isn't, your stroke must be curved (and you want it straight).

pj
chgo
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Rogue8ball said:
... Is this a flaw that can be worked with if it exists as it does in my mechanics or something I should invest heavy time in to relearning?
...
Click to expand...
As Pat pointed out, a non-vertical forearm will usually lead to a curved stroke. It is possible to add in other motions in the hand/arm to correct this and end up with a straight stroke. In a similar way, it is possible to add upper arm movement to turn a pendulum stroke -- which is curved but in the vertical plane -- into a piston stroke -- which is not curved in any plane.

Do Orcollo and Thorpe do the corrections or are their strokes curved?

As for what you should do, that's a very hard question to answer without knowing more. How many hours a day do you have to practice? How much improvement do you want to see? Is your side-arm stance causing a problem in hitting the ball where you want? Do you have any symptoms of a problem?

It's possible for a curved stroke to be repeatable so that you can hit along the line you want and with the spin you want. I believe it is harder to do that over a range of speeds and elevations compared to a textbook-straight stroke. The curvature adds a variable that -- it seems to me -- can cause problems when the shots change and it is harder to change the stroke to match. A simpler (vertical plane) stroke does not seem to have the same possible problems.
 
Rogue8ball

Rogue8ball

Registered
Bob & Pat, thanks for the information.

Patrick,
I'm going to double check some video of my forearm. I did some striking work this Monday and verified that from soft to firm hitting Center Ball, I was usually within 5% of the strike if not dead on.

Bob,
How many hours a day do you have to practice?

***** I try to to practice a couple of hours 3-4 times a week if possible. I also go shoot local tournaments a couple times a month.

How much improvement do you want to see?
***** I'm currently a 529 Fargo player and looking to make myself competitive with the 600-650 range players long term. I have attended several clinics with Jerry Briesath and a one-on-one with him last year in October.

Is your side-arm stance causing a problem in hitting the ball where you want?
***** From this Monday's striking work, I would say minimal, but would like to verify more for you. I know it isn't textbook, and that's why I have been interested in correcting.

Do you have any symptoms of a problem?
***** Breaking I will get some uneccessarry side spin at times attacking head ball.

I hope this answers the questions asked and I can gladly provide more information.

Appreciate the information again!

M.Kitzman
 
D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Bob?

In those original pics it looks to me like some of the players are somewhat jacked up, almost shooting over another ball.

Could this affect what the OP is talking about?

r/DCP
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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DrCue'sProtege said:
Hey Bob?

In those original pics it looks to me like some of the players are somewhat jacked up, almost shooting over another ball.

Could this affect what the OP is talking about?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
Players do tend to go side-arm when elevating and it often causes problems for them. Without spending a lot of time finding and studying videos, it's hard to say how big an effect it is/was for DO and BT.
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I haven't come across any players who have had problems shooting because of that type of elbow position. I'm not sure how that came to be for them --- whether it's because they started young and developed a bit of a side arm style to reach the table, or if they stand fairly far sideways away from the line of the shot. Until I can see that it hinders a players game, I wouldn't consider it a problem. I've noticed it's common among Filipino players.

Chicken wing elbow position, however, is a problem. I wouldn't recommend that for any player because that position definitely can hinder a player's ability to stroke.
 
Z

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
I haven't come across any players who have had problems shooting because of that type of elbow position. I'm not sure how that came to be for them --- whether it's because they started young and developed a bit of a side arm style to reach the table, or if they stand fairly far sideways away from the line of the shot. Until I can see that it hinders a players game, I wouldn't consider it a problem. I've noticed it's common among Filipino players.

Chicken wing elbow position, however, is a problem. I wouldn't recommend that for any player because that position definitely can hinder a player's ability to stroke.
Click to expand...

why do you consider the chicken wing position more of a problem than the reverse chicken wing?can you be more specific?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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DrCue'sProtege said:
Chicken Wing? As in Keith McCready? He was a pretty fair player.

r/DCP
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Chicken wing: elbow is farther from the body than the grip hand. From the elbow to the wrist the cue slopes towards the torso.

Side-arm: elbow is closer to the body than the grip hand. From the elbow to the wrist the cue slopes away from the torso.

Keith plays side-arm like Willie Hoppe. Keith's success with an unorthodox stroke is a testament to what can be achieved when you're playing for thousands of dollars in junior high. Hoppe earned his family's living from about the time he was eight years old. According to stories, his father beat him when he missed. That kind of motivation can also focus the mind and overcome stroke problems.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
z0nt0n3r said:
why do you consider the chicken wing position more of a problem than the reverse chicken wing?can you be more specific?
Click to expand...

A chicken wing usually occurs when the player crowds his arm with his torso. The arm swing is then restricted and a player can't let his stroke out because it's impeded by his torso. When the elbow is in the opposite situation, the arm is not impeded by the torso, thus the player can still freely swing his arm.
 
Z

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
A chicken wing usually occurs when the player crowds his arm with his torso. The arm swing is then restricted and a player can't let his stroke out because it's impeded by his torso. When the elbow is in the opposite situation, the arm is not impeded by the torso, thus the player can still freely swing his arm.
Click to expand...

ok got it and i know all about it cause i had a chicken wing action for years
 
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