Thanks Dave, I'll check out the links.
Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) for measuring table "toughness"
- Thread starter dr_dave
- Start date
I am happy to announce that I got my new table delivered and installed yesterday:
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/5":0.98 -- 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
It has brand new, really tight, Simonis 860HR. I can't wait to try the Corey Deuel draw shot. It should be a "piece of cake." I should also now have no trouble getting a 10 on the BU Exam I draw drill every time (this was really tough with the slow, sticky cloth on my previous table).
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/5":0.98 -- 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
It has brand new, really tight, Simonis 860HR. I can't wait to try the Corey Deuel draw shot. It should be a "piece of cake." I should also now have no trouble getting a 10 on the BU Exam I draw drill every time (this was really tough with the slow, sticky cloth on my previous table).
Here's a mobile-friendly online tool (created by "Isaac") and an Excel spreadsheet for automatically calculating the TDF factor from three pocket measurements to determine the difficulty level of a table.
Measurements and data reported by AZB users for table difficulty factor (TDF), based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):
name -- table_size:TSF -- pocket_mouth_sizeSF -- mouth-throat_difference
Vahmurka -- 12':1.25 -- 7.2cm:1.55 -- 125deg:0.97 -- 25mm:0.98 -- 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
dr_dave -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.39 (fictitious tough 10' table example)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 145deg:1.14 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 2 1/8":1.07 -- 1.34 (fictitious example "B")
Ricky Sy -- 9':1.00 -- 3 3/4":1.31 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 5/8":0.98 -- 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/16":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/8":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.16 (Diamond)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary -- 9'-1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/16":0.98 -- 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
Ralph Kramden -- 9':1.0 -- 4 5/16":1.05 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/16":1.10 -- 7/16":0.99 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.12 (unknown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 1 1/4":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.09 -- 2 1/2": 1.07 -- 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 0.45":0.99 -- 1 5/16":0.99 -- 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16:1.00 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 15/16":0.98 -- 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 2 1//8":1.05 -- 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
Goldball -- 8':0.90 -- 12.2cm:0.91 -- 4cm:1.14 -- 5.4cm:1.07 -- 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
MVPCues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0.625":1.00 -- 1.5":0.98 -- 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds -- 8'+: 0.95 -- 4.9":0.91 -- 1.1":1.1 -- 1.8" 1.03 -- 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/2": 0.98 -- 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis -- 9':1.00 -- 10.9cm:1.05 -- 1cm:0.97 -- 3.1cm:0.95 -- 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.0 -- 12.5cm:0.91 -- 20mm:1.04 -- 45mm:1.03 -- 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 11/16":0.95 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 11/16":1.02 -- 1 15/16":1.03 -- 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/5":0.98 -- 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner -- 8'+/-:0.925 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1":0.95 -- 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle -- 9':1.00 -- 13.1cm:0.88 -- 2.2cm:1.03 -- 4.3cm:1.00 -- 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie -- 9':1.00 -- 11.5cm:0.95 -- 138.7deg:0.98 -- 3.5cm:0.98 -- 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 1":1.05 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC)
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan -- 9':1.0 -- 5": 0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1.5":0.97 -- 0.86 (GC)
SloMoHolic -- 8'+:0.95 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.85 (custom-made)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
jtaylor996 -- 7':0.85 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 146deg:1.09 -- 1.51":1.00 -- 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.79 (fictitious 8' example "A")
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic -- 6':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
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If your balls are dirty this will make it more difficult to draw. I lightly spray turtle wax on a cloth and wipe the balls, then run them in my ball cleaner to give them a buff. I just learned this last week and you will not believe how easy it is to draw the cue ball, plus the balls do not skid anymore.
Thanks! I'm pretty excited about it, especially being able to graduate to the BU Doctorate level.
Catch you later,
Dave
I just tightened up my pockets on my 10 foot Brunswick.
Here is a video showing the pocket size. Everything else is the same except the shelf is 3/16 deeper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKl6yZkoP0c
Here is a video showing the pocket size. Everything else is the same except the shelf is 3/16 deeper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKl6yZkoP0c
Please post all of the new pocket dimensions and run your TDF calculation (or I can do that for you). All of the numbers should be different now with your modifications.
Catch you later,
Dave
PS: Now, if you can beat your previous best BU Exam scores on this modified table, I will really, really by impressed. Good luck!
I'll get the measurements on video for you sometime today. I did measure the mouth and throat this morning and the mouth measured 4 1/2 - 4 3/8" and the throat measured 3 1/2". You can determine that when I send you the link to the video. The depth on the shelf should be 3/16" deeper being all rails are 3/16" farther in.
When I modify my shelf is 2" - 2 1/4" a strong depth? Is that too much or not enough? I want my table to play more difficult than a 9' Diamond pro cut.
Thanks
Scott
When I modify my shelf is 2" - 2 1/4" a strong depth? Is that too much or not enough? I want my table to play more difficult than a 9' Diamond pro cut.
Thanks
Scott
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I've added an entry for your modified table to the list. Here's the entry:
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/16":1.0 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.0 -- 1.18 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
Actually, the increase in shelf depth should be about 1.4 times the rail shift (from trigonometry), but you can measure it to be sure.
See the table difficulty factor (TDF) document to see what effects different changes have. Or just plug different numbers into the mobile-friendly online TDF tool (created by "Isaac").
Regards,
Dave
Here's the latest:
Here's a mobile-friendly online tool (created by "Isaac") and an Excel spreadsheet for automatically calculating the TDF factor from three pocket measurements to determine the difficulty level of a table.
Measurements and data reported by AZB users for table difficulty factor (TDF), based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):
name -- table_size:TSF -- pocket_mouth_sizeSF -- mouth-throat_differenceAF -- shelf_depthLF -- TDF (table description)
Vahmurka -- 12':1.25 -- 7.2cm:1.55 -- 125deg:0.97 -- 25mm:0.98 -- 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
dr_dave -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.39 (fictitious tough 10' table example)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 145deg:1.14 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 2 1/8":1.07 -- 1.34 (fictitious example "B")
Ricky Sy -- 9':1.00 -- 3 3/4":1.31 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 5/8":0.98 -- 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/16":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/8":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/16":1.0 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.0 -- 1.18 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.16 (Diamond)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary -- 9'-1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/16":0.98 -- 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
Ralph Kramden -- 9':1.0 -- 4 5/16":1.05 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/16":1.10 -- 7/16":0.99 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.12 (unknown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 1 1/4":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.09 -- 2 1/2": 1.07 -- 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 0.45":0.99 -- 1 5/16":0.99 -- 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16:1.00 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 15/16":0.98 -- 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 2 1//8":1.05 -- 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
Goldball -- 8':0.90 -- 12.2cm:0.91 -- 4cm:1.14 -- 5.4cm:1.07 -- 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
MVPCues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0.625":1.00 -- 1.5":0.98 -- 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds -- 8'+: 0.95 -- 4.9":0.91 -- 1.1":1.1 -- 1.8" 1.03 -- 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/2": 0.98 -- 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis -- 9':1.00 -- 10.9cm:1.05 -- 1cm:0.97 -- 3.1cm:0.95 -- 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.0 -- 12.5cm:0.91 -- 20mm:1.04 -- 45mm:1.03 -- 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 11/16":0.95 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 11/16":1.02 -- 1 15/16":1.03 -- 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/5":0.98 -- 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner -- 8'+/-:0.925 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1":0.95 -- 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle -- 9':1.00 -- 13.1cm:0.88 -- 2.2cm:1.03 -- 4.3cm:1.00 -- 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie -- 9':1.00 -- 11.5cm:0.95 -- 138.7deg:0.98 -- 3.5cm:0.98 -- 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 1":1.05 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC)
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan -- 9':1.0 -- 5": 0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1.5":0.97 -- 0.86 (GC)
SloMoHolic -- 8'+:0.95 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.85 (custom-made)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
jtaylor996 -- 7':0.85 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 146deg:1.09 -- 1.51":1.00 -- 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.79 (fictitious 8' example "A")
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic -- 6':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
Here's a mobile-friendly online tool (created by "Isaac") and an Excel spreadsheet for automatically calculating the TDF factor from three pocket measurements to determine the difficulty level of a table.
Measurements and data reported by AZB users for table difficulty factor (TDF), based on the table size factor (TSF), pocket size factor (PSF), pocket angle factor (PAF), and pocket shelf factor (PLF):
name -- table_size:TSF -- pocket_mouth_size
SF -- mouth-throat_differenceAF -- shelf_depthLF -- TDF (table description)Vahmurka -- 12':1.25 -- 7.2cm:1.55 -- 125deg:0.97 -- 25mm:0.98 -- 1.84 (12ft Russian pyramid table)
dr_dave -- 10':1.10 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.39 (fictitious tough 10' table example)
Bob Dixon -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 145deg:1.14 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.37 (Pool Sharks, Las Vegas, money table, Diamond Pro-Am, red logo, Ernesto Dominguez-modified)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 2 1/8":1.07 -- 1.34 (fictitious example "B")
Ricky Sy -- 9':1.00 -- 3 3/4":1.31 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 5/8":0.98 -- 1.25 (money table at Hard Times in Bellflower, CA)
Bonus Ball -- 9':1.00 -- 3 7/8":1.25 -- 1/8":0.97 -- 3/4":0.98 -- 1.19 (Bonus Ball table)
Marc Vidal -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/16":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (shimmed Brunswick Tournament Edition)
chevybob20 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 7/8":1.05 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.18 (Mark-Gregory-modified Centennial)
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/16":1.0 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.0 -- 1.18 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
Qaddiction -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.16 (Diamond)
rexus31 -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 3/8":0.98 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.15 (mid to late 50's AMF Commercial Model similar to a Brunswick Anniversary/Sport King)
FatBoy -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 1":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
TATE -- 9':1.00 -- 4":1.20 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 7/8":0.98 -- 1.14 (Ernesto-Dominguez-modified GC)
Mikjary -- 9'-1.00 -- 4":1.15 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/16":0.98 -- 1.13 (Brunswick Centurion)
Ralph Kramden -- 9':1.0 -- 4 5/16":1.05 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.12 (1962 Nine foot Gold Crown 1)
pocket -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/16":1.10 -- 7/16":0.99 -- 1 7/8":1.03 -- 1.12 (unknown)
Neil -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/8":1.15 -- 1 1/4":1.14 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 1.10 (modified Valley "bar box")
MahnaMahna -- 10':1.10 -- 5 1/2":0.85 -- 2":1.09 -- 2 1/2": 1.07 -- 1.09 (snooker table poorly converted into a pool table)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 0.45":0.99 -- 1 5/16":0.99 -- 1.08 (GC II)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16:1.00 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.07 (GCII, RKC mod)
cigardave -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.07 (typical Pro-Cut Diamond)
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 1.05 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick)
Pool Hustler -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 1/4":0.97 -- 15/16":0.98 -- 1.05 (modified GC, measured by rexus31)
JC -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.05 ("Cobrasized" GC III)
SloMoHolic -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 1.02 (2005 Diamond Pro with ProCut pockets and Red-label rails)
CoreyClark -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 2 1//8":1.05 -- 1.02 (GC I)
"standard" table -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/16":1.00 -- 9/16":1.00 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 1.00 (average-difficulty table)
Goldball -- 8':0.90 -- 12.2cm:0.91 -- 4cm:1.14 -- 5.4cm:1.07 -- 1.00 (Heiron & Smith)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/8":0.99 -- 0.99 (old GC II at MatchUps, Fort Collins)
MVPCues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.98 (Antique Brunswick Jefferson, circa 1900)
oldschool1478 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0.625":1.00 -- 1.5":0.98 -- 0.98 (updated Red Badge Diamond Pro)
freds -- 8'+: 0.95 -- 4.9":0.91 -- 1.1":1.1 -- 1.8" 1.03 -- 0.98 (Gandy Big G, oversized 8)
Cardigan Kid -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (GC III Table 7 at Premium Billiards, Syracuse, Mark Gregory-modified w/ Artemis cushions)
wigglybridge -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 1/2": 0.98 -- 0.98 (GC 1.5, rails rebuilt & cushions replaced by Jay Spielberg)
BryanB -- 9':1.00 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.97 (1931 Brunswick with double shimmed pockets)
Poolmanis -- 9':1.00 -- 10.9cm:1.05 -- 1cm:0.97 -- 3.1cm:0.95 -- 0.97 (modified SAM)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.0 -- 12.5cm:0.91 -- 20mm:1.04 -- 45mm:1.03 -- 0.97 (Brunswick Metro)
mamics -- 9':1.00 -- 4 11/16":0.95 -- 143deg:1.07 -- 1 3/16":0.95 -- 0.97 (no-name "Chinese Cheapie" with Uylin cushions)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 11/16":1.02 -- 1 15/16":1.03 -- 0.96 (typical League-Cut Diamond)
dr_dave -- 9':1.00 -- 5": 0.91 -- 1":1.07 -- 1 1/5":0.98 -- 0.95 (Olhausen purchased from Robert Byrne)
dzcues -- 9':1.00 -- 5":0.91 -- 15/16":1.07 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.95 (Gandy Big G)
Sloppy Pockets -- 8'+:0.95 -- 5":0.91 -- 1 1/8":1.10 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.95 (A.E. Schmidt)
44Runner -- 8'+/-:0.925 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1":0.95 -- 0.94 (8' Diamond Pro-Am - blue label)
Corwyn_8 -- 9':1.00 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.92 (Gandy Winchester)
beetle -- 9':1.00 -- 13.1cm:0.88 -- 2.2cm:1.03 -- 4.3cm:1.00 -- 0.91 (Olhausen York)
frigopie -- 9':1.00 -- 11.5cm:0.95 -- 138.7deg:0.98 -- 3.5cm:0.98 -- 0.91 (Eurotour Dynamic III)
12squared -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.91 (GC home table)
iusedtoberich -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 1":1.05 -- 1 1/2":0.97 -- 0.90 (GC)
MSchaffer -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.89 (GC II)
mfinkelstein3 -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC III)
StraightPoolIU -- 9':1.00 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.88 (GC I)
Vahmurka -- 9':1.00 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 7/8":1.03 -- 1 1/2": 0.97 -- 0.88 (GC)
Dopc -- 8':0.90 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.87 (8' Connelly Kayenta)
SloMoHolic -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.87 (old 8' Brunswick Medalist league table)
RobMan -- 9':1.0 -- 5": 0.88 -- 3/4":1.01 -- 1.5":0.97 -- 0.86 (GC)
SloMoHolic -- 8'+:0.95 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 7/8":1.04 -- 1 1/4":0.95 -- 0.85 (Brunswick Medalist at Stardust Club in Manchaca, TX)
buckshotshoey -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.85 (American Heritage "Independence")
nateobot -- 7':0.85 -- 4 3/8":1.05 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 0.85 (custom-made)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 4 3/4":0.95 -- 5/8":1.00 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.84 (8' Connelly home table)
BRussell -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 13/16":1.04 -- 1 1/2":0.98 -- 0.83 (8' Olhausen)
jtaylor996 -- 7':0.85 -- 5 1/8":0.88 -- 146deg:1.09 -- 1.51":1.00 -- 0.82 (7' Legacy home table)
dr_dave -- 8':0.90 -- 5":0.91 -- 1/2":0.98 -- 1 3/8":0.98 -- 0.79 (fictitious 8' example "A")
Mooneye -- 7':0.85 -- 4 7/8":0.91 -- 3/4":1.02 -- 1 5/8":1.00 -- 0.79 (7' Brunswick "Ranchero")
SloMoHolic -- 6':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 5/8":0.95 -- 0.77 (old 6' Valley "bar box")
dzcues -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 1/2":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box")
dr_dave -- 7':0.85 -- 4 1/2":1.00 -- 0":0.95 -- 3/4":0.95 -- 0.77 (7' Valley "bar box" at West End, Fort Collins)
Dave, I was able to squeeze the pockets down to 4 1/4". The taper is the same 15/16". Here is the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6CiU41__48&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6CiU41__48&feature=youtu.be
Wow! That makes your table really tough now. Here's the edited entry:
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 15/16":1.09 -- 1 3/4":1.00 -- 1.32 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
That is way tougher than a typical pro-cut 9' Diamond (TDF = about 1.07)
Catch you later,
Dave
I had my table apart today and was going to extend the shelf but it would be too difficult so I snugged up the pockets a bit more. Can't wait to run some racks on it. :thumbup:
Dave,
I ended up extending the shelf depth in the corner pockets. Here is a video showing how I did it and all the measurements. The difference in the mouth and throat is 3/4" see video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2xYl4Pf9U&feature=youtu.be
Can't wait to video a few table runs.
Cheers
I ended up extending the shelf depth in the corner pockets. Here is a video showing how I did it and all the measurements. The difference in the mouth and throat is 3/4" see video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE2xYl4Pf9U&feature=youtu.be
Can't wait to video a few table runs.
Cheers
Here is a demo video of me shooting some balls showing how the corner pockets rattle now. The table plays really tough now and I can't wait to see how it improves my game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0yVWfhQb_I&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0yVWfhQb_I&feature=youtu.be
Scott,
FYI, your throat measurement isn't quite right, per the info and illustration in the TDF document. If you have a angle-measuring device, it might be easier to measure the facing angle directly. Anyway, I've estimated your throat measurement at 3 1/4" to give the following:
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 1":1.09 -- 2 1/4":1.07 -- 1.41 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
That's one tough table!
Good work,
Dave
FYI, your throat measurement isn't quite right, per the info and illustration in the TDF document. If you have a angle-measuring device, it might be easier to measure the facing angle directly. Anyway, I've estimated your throat measurement at 3 1/4" to give the following:
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 1":1.09 -- 2 1/4":1.07 -- 1.41 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
That's one tough table!
Good work,
Dave
You'll need to aim at the far sides of your corner pockets with those tight pockets.
Do the balls hang on the shelves when they roll at slow speeds? Just wondering.
.
I can slow roll just like shooting on a 9 foot diamond but the true test will be in 2 weeks when I go play on a diamond 9 footer. I will know right away if my table plays tougher. If not I'll bring the pockets down to 4 inches.
Based on the pocket angle factor (PAF) table, I've updated your info as follows:
Side Pocket -- 10':1.10 -- 4 1/4":1.10 -- 145 deg:1.14 -- 2 1/4":1.07 -- 1.48 (10' 1920-1925 Brunswick, modified 9/2016)
Again, that's one tough table!
Catch you later,
Dave