Honest questions about cues..

vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With so many on the market, and such a huge difference in price range how do you go about getting the best cue? There is no way you can honestly test them all so is price the main factor along with what is around your area of purchase? Everyone will have a favorite for various reasons, and many not very sound. Chevy vs Ford type of thing..

Are custom cues really custom? Unlike golf clubs or motorcycles that are actually built for one person how are they called custom cues when not truly made for one person?

Is there really that much difference in a $40 house cue vs a $ 2500 custom? I hear many times that it doesn't matter the cost of the cue, but the person behind it. So why do people buy expensive cues vs a $40 house cue or cheap two piece?

Would you buy older cues online or would you just stick to what you can touch before you spend money?

Can you honestly feel a difference between low end vs high end cues? What brand sells the best line up from top to bottom? Subjective I know, but wanted to throw that out.

IMO its very frustrating trying to push back the BS, and get the nuts, and bolts to the forefront.

Is it one of those things in life when people think more money equals better product when in real world truth not so much?
 

nancewayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
??? about cues

Cues for your personal use have to fit only YOUR specifications. The variables are many. It is easier to prioritize the variables from most important to least important and usually cost is right up there in that order.

Production vs Handmade Custom (to your specs.) has a lot to do with $$$. The playing cue's most important part is the shaft, it has to be right FOR YOU, ie., weight, taper, ferrule, length, tip, LD vs not, etc..

I think the shaft is about 85% of the importance of the total cue.


With so many on the market, and such a huge difference in price range how do you go about getting the best cue? There is no way you can honestly test them all so is price the main factor along with what is around your area of purchase? Everyone will have a favorite for various reasons, and many not very sound. Chevy vs Ford type of thing..

Are custom cues really custom? Unlike golf clubs or motorcycles that are actually built for one person how are they called custom cues when not truly made for one person?

Is there really that much difference in a $40 house cue vs a $ 2500 custom? I hear many times that it doesn't matter the cost of the cue, but the person behind it. So why do people buy expensive cues vs a $40 house cue or cheap two piece?

Would you buy older cues online or would you just stick to what you can touch before you spend money?

Can you honestly feel a difference between low end vs high end cues? What brand sells the best line up from top to bottom? Subjective I know, but wanted to throw that out.

IMO its very frustrating trying to push back the BS, and get the nuts, and bolts to the forefront.

Is it one of those things in life when people think more money equals better product when in real world truth not so much?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's impossible to find the "best" cue, probably after 30 years you may find 2-3 you really like though. Cues don't have solid performance measurements, even the same brand shaft with the same brand tip can feel different if the wood was from a different log.

Start with trying 3-4 cues that use a certain type of joint, if you find that you clearly prefer one joint type over another you can move on to different shaft diameters and tapers, after that tip types and shaft construction.

This is a question has been repeated word for word probably once a month on AZB if not more often, what is the difference between price ranges in cues.

I'd say over $500 you are paying for looks and collectability just like with paining. If you like dogs you can probably buy a painting of a dog for $100, or $1,000,000 depending on who painted it. A $500 cue from a good maker will be built just as well as any $5,000 cue, just with less fancy woods and inlays, and will likely only have 1 shaft instead of 3-4.

Custom cues from a custom cue maker are custom, the custom cues from makers like Joss, McDermott, Schon, Viking, etc.. are only custom within a certain range of variables like weight, and you can get different shafts and even modify those shafts with different diameters. It's custom that you got it how you like it and which one you like, not custom like it was made for you from scratch after you gave a maker your specs. But you can certainly get a custom cue that way also, down to the diameter of the butt and balance point.
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like any other choice presented, there are differences between those choices.

For any person who considers choices, there are decision criteria.

What is important to you?
 

vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So basically no servicable function gain on higher end cues is what you are saying? Pretty much just to puff your chest, and look at me type of thing?

What I take is the value is $500, and under, and you just have to push your way through the BS to find what fits you? In other words it could be a $50 cue. When you go to look for a car or TV or cue the same game is played depending on the salesman strategy.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Really great question. Let the BS begin!

I strongly recommend Schon cues. Having said that, what playing differences would you notice if you used the absolute entry level Schon versus the absolute top of the line Schon ? Of course both cue butts being the exact same dimensions, wrap (or lack of), balance points and weights and using the SAME shaft on both? As I said, let the BS begin.

If a perfect one piece "house" cue is the best, what happens when you add inlays, veneers, cuts, recuts, a wrap, butt cap, coring, joint, etc. The list goes on and on. Does the resultant cue play better, look prettier or is it more convenient to transport or store? As I said, great question.

Lyn
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Well, there is no shot that can be made that my $99 Schmelke cue can't make. I even offered folks money to gamble on that prop, and nobody will take me up on it.

That being said, I'm on a waiting list for the top cue maker in the country. But as great as his cues are made and designed, I'm not going to play one lick better than I do now, just a fact.

If Major League baseball players who have to hit 100 mph pitches, or even worse a 90 mph slider, use a $150 wood bat and they avg ML player is paid $5M a year. The top guys have $100M, $250M, and even $300M contracts. Yes, they do order the length, weight and handle to their specs. They also may chose a certain wood, hickory, ash, maple, etc. But $150 gets the job done, and hits a baseball 450 feet.

So, buy what you want, just don't buy what you think you need ;)
 

prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
So basically no servicable function gain on higher end cues is what you are saying? Pretty much just to puff your chest, and look at me type of thing?

What I take is the value is $500, and under, and you just have to push your way through the BS to find what fits you? In other words it could be a $50 cue. When you go to look for a car or TV or cue the same game is played depending on the salesman strategy.

That is not true. I have tried 100s of cues.
The 2 best stainless steel joint cues I've tried were a searing and a tascarella $3 and 4k cues. I "liked" and older SS joint Joss for $300 but there was a huge difference.
But I don't play with SS jointed cue. I presonally prefer wood to wood. Until recently the best I had was 4.5k kersenbrock but now I play with a 1400 bluegrass. If those 2 weren't avaialble I would play with an Ed Young or a mike Bender. None could you pick up even the plainest used for $500 let alone $1000.

Could I find a decent wood to wood jointed cue that plays well for $500. Sure. But there is no question that there. Is a noticble difference. It is up to the individual to decide if the price is worth that difference.
 
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RRfireblade

Grammer Are For Stupids
Silver Member
With so many on the market, and such a huge difference in price range how do you go about getting the best cue?

There are hundreds if not thousands of cues out there that will qualify as The Best for you. It not that hard to find one made to one's ideal specs. It's just a wooden stick after all. The key is knowing what those specs are.

Are custom cues really custom? Unlike golf clubs or motorcycles that are actually built for one person how are they called custom cues when not truly made for one person?

"Custom" cues are built exactly like that however, every numbskull who buys a high end cue from a low production builder calls theirs a custom.

Is there really that much difference in a $40 house cue vs a $ 2500 custom? I hear many times that it doesn't matter the cost of the cue, but the person behind it. So why do people buy expensive cues vs a $40 house cue or cheap two piece?

There are endless differences between those two cues. The differences may or may result in one playing a better game of pool. A wise man once said, "It's just a wooden stick after all".

Would you buy older cues online or would you just stick to what you can touch before you spend money?

Personally I would never buy a cue of any significant amount of money, to keep and with the expectation of it being my primary player, without playing with it first. To flip? Sure. There's not much you can really tell about anything from a simple picture on the 'net.

Can you honestly feel a difference between low end vs high end cues? What brand sells the best line up from top to bottom? Subjective I know, but wanted to throw that out.

Sure, sometimes. But some high ends cues are crap and so cheap cues are pretty dang solid for the money. Where it overlaps, could be anywhere depending on each cue so who the hell knows.

IMO its very frustrating trying to push back the BS, and get the nuts, and bolts to the forefront.

Is it one of those things in life when people think more money equals better product when in real world truth not so much?

People think that for sure.
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
Okay, let's get real here.
If you want a cue that will out play you for the rest of your life buy a Shon STL, with a Predator shaft, tipped with an Ultraskin.
You'll thank me later. :smile:
 

vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CRJ not to be a jerk, but why would one be on a list for a custom when they wrote what you just wrote? If you know you will do no better why do it?
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That is not true. I have tried 100s of cues.
The 2 best stained steel joint cues I've tried were a searing and a tascarella $3 and 4k cues. I "liked" and older SS jointed Joss for $300 but there was a huge difference.
But I don't play with SS jointed cue. I presonally prefer wood to wood. Until recently the best I had was 4.5k kersenbrock but now I play with a 1400 bluegrass. If those 2 weren't avaialble I would play with an Ed Young or a mike Bender. None could you pick up even the plainest used for $500 let alone $1000.

Could I find a decent wood to wood jointed cue that plays well for $500. Sure. But there is no question that there. Is a noticble difference. It is up to the individual to decide if the price is worth that difference.

I'd say that about 50% of the preference is in your head, like when you wash your car and it drives better. You have a top line maker and it makes you think it's better.

The other 45% is hit feel not performance. I've played with $3,000-10,000 cues and have not found any that were $9,500 better than either my 90s Joss or my Ned Morris. In fact, only a few had a better hit feel, plus if you stick a LD shaft on any of the, you have the exact same performance and totally change the feel of the hit. My friend had a Mike Webb with a Predator and I did not like that hit at all, he changed over to a Webb shaft and it was a much better cue.

You are looking at my painting analogy here, it's who paints it not really exactly how good it's painted or even if the person looking at it likes it better. I may hate how a paining done by Picasso looks like, but that does not change the fact that everyone will fall all over it because it's a Picasso. Searing may make a solid cue, but it's not close to being that much better than a sneaky made by Sly or someone similar that sells it for 1/10th the price, because everyone else goes "ooohh Searing" and immediately the price goes up, not the actual quality

It's like with computers, the first 90% of the quality and performance possible is, lets say in the first $1,000 of value in both cues and computers. If you want that extra bit on top, you are going to be paying more and more for it, and you end up with gaining that extra 10% but it costs you 4 times of what a 90% level is.

A Toyota for $25,000 will be 90% as nice as a Lexus for double that also. And to get a car from 4.0 seconds in the 60 to 3.8 seconds you may need to spend another $5,000 on turbos, pipe work and gears, but will anyone looking at them at separate times be able to tell the difference? Nope. To the naked eye, unless they are side by side and you can see who wins, both cars will be as fast, just one would have cost you 5 grand more.
 
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vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So my take so far is as consumers we are making the problem harder on ourselves, and not to overthink things. So I'm still basically lost.

What BS talk will I get when I walk in to buy a cue, and what keys does one want to pay attention to? Customer backing with a life time warranty for me its made in the USA atop the list. I may be hard headed, but when I can buy American I will.

Does every store have brands they try to push by the manufactures. How many different brands should one look at? How many are made by the same co under different names etc etc.
 
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slide13

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CRJ not to be a jerk, but why would one be on a list for a custom when they wrote what you just wrote? If you know you will do no better why do it?

I believe the same as him and also have a custom cue on order. Performance isn't the only reason to buy something. If all you care about is performance then go buy a good cheap cue and you're all set, done deal. But for some they may want certain specs because it just feels better to them or a certain look because they like it. Personally, it's a bit of both for me. I have a certain type of cue I like and I want it to look a certain way with a specific weight and balance. I also like small craft made items over factory built when I can get them. Same reason I carry a custom pocket knife even though it cuts no better than my $30 Swiss Army Knife. And it's not to show off either, nobody ever notices things like what knife I have in my pocket but it brings me joy.

I spend a fair bit of my time playing pool and see no problem wih spending a little extra for a cue I'll really enjoy owning and using, even if it doesn't make me play any better. Being happy with the cue in your hand is worth a lot when you spend so many hours using it.
 

vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All I can say is...if you aren't to the point where you know what specs YOU prefer in a cue, test hit everything before you buy. Anything less is just rolling the dice. If it's not right for you, you'll know it because it won't feel right. By test hitting you can find some real gems on the cheap too. A cue may be cheap and ugly as sin, but a monster player. It happens.

If you know what specs you like already I would go custom. That's what those guys do and they're good at it. I have an absolutely plain SP that I love...no collars, finish, wrap, or butt cap. I have around 600 in it with two shafts but everything about the cue is top quality, it's arrow straight, and it's made to my EXACT specs. Buying a custom cue isn't always about puffing your chest out.

How do you get to that point with so much on the market?
 

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Okay, let's get real here.
If you want a cue that will out play you for the rest of your life buy a Shon STL, with a Predator shaft, tipped with an Ultraskin.
You'll thank me later. :smile:

I tend to agree with you for the most part. My friend had a few Schons, I loved every one of them. I bought one for myself and the hit is real different than any Schon I have ever hit, with the Schon or Predator shaft. Schon is local to me so I plan to go down there with my cue to find out what the deal is but this would not stop me from buying a Schon in the future. My playing ce is an old D19 McDermott, I bought it a few months ago, had it refinished, and a new G-Core shaft made for it. It was not my intention to use it as a player but I like the hit and feel so much that it has become my player.
As far as trying different cues to find what you like I am not sure how that is even possible until you have exhausted many options. Just changing a tip can completely change the way a cue feels. If you try a cue with a soft tip and you like it, what happens if you do not like the feel when you change to the hard tip that may be your normal playing tip, it can completely change the way the cue feels. Just the difference between a brand new tip and one that has several hundred games on it can be a big difference.
 

prewarhero

guess my avatar
Silver Member
I'd say that about 50% of the preference is in your head, like when you wash your car and it drives better. You have a top line maker and it makes you think it's better.

The other 45% is hit feel not performance. I've played with $3,000-10,000 cues and have not found any that were $9,500 better than either my 90s Joss or my Ned Morris. In fact, only a few had a better hit feel, plus if you stick a LD shaft on any of the, you have the exact same performance and totally change the feel of the hit. My friend had a Mike Webb with a Predator and I did not like that hit at all, he changed over to a Webb shaft and it was a much better cue.

You are looking at my painting analogy here, it's who paints it not really exactly how good it's painted or even if the person looking at it likes it better. I may hate how a paining done by Picasso looks like, but that does not change the fact that everyone will fall all over it because it's a Picasso. Searing may make a solid cue, but it's not close to being that much better than a sneaky made by Sly or someone similar that sells it for 1/10th the price, because everyone else goes "ooohh Searing" and immediately the price goes up, not the actual quality

It's like with computers, the first 90% of the quality and performance possible is, lets say in the first $1,000 of value in both cues and computers. If you want that extra bit on top, you are going to be paying more and more for it, and you end up with gaining that extra 10% but it costs you 4 times of what a 90% level is.

A Toyota for $25,000 will be 90% as nice as a Lexus for double that also. And to get a car from 4.0 seconds in the 60 to 3.8 seconds you may need to spend another $5,000 on turbos, pipe work and gears, but will anyone looking at them at separate times be able to tell the difference? Nope. To the naked eye, unless they are side by side and you can see who wins, both cars will be as fast, just one would have cost you 5 grand more.

I disagree. While it is still personal preference there is a noticeable difference that does indeed lend itself to performance. SW and my Kersenbrock are undeniably stiff. Which I prefer. All my SWs and Kersenbrocks were made with a thinner butt. Which i prefer. However, the tollerances that Richard harris used in my recent cue is felt in the tightness of screwing the cue together . There balance is, to my preference, much better than others mentioned. It is stiff, choice woods were used. One shaft is noticeably better.

Please note, I mentioned nothing about ascetics. Between the stiffness without a loss in cue ball movement (hard to accomplish) lack if vibration at the joint, weight and balance to my specs this cue performs better and I doubt I could have all the above for less.

Now, by performce I do not claim it helps me make shots I would otherwise miss although I notice the balance cuts down on the times I miss because my transition from back swing to final stroke was not as smooth. The weight and balance improves cue ball speed and the lack of vibration or as others might refer to as "feel" supports a smoother follow through and less movement on my backhand after contact.

Interestingly I was thinking about this last night. I miss primarily for the following reasons (in order);
1) taking shot for granted and not exacting proper PSR - mostly not lining up properly.
2) a little twist on my backhand at contact
3) poor or awkward transition on final swing
4) poor follow through.

I am Confident this new cue has reduced 2-4 and it is not in my head.

But give me a joss and I will still give tramp steamer the 7
 
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vikingpitbull

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I believe the same as him and also have a custom cue on order. Performance isn't the only reason to buy something. If all you care about is performance then go buy a good cheap cue and you're all set, done deal. But for some they may want certain specs because it just feels better to them or a certain look because they like it. Personally, it's a bit of both for me. I have a certain type of cue I like and I want it to look a certain way with a specific weight and balance. I also like small craft made items over factory built when I can get them. Same reason I carry a custom pocket knife even though it cuts no better than my $30 Swiss Army Knife. And it's not to show off either, nobody ever notices things like what knife I have in my pocket but it brings me joy.

I spend a fair bit of my time playing pool and see no problem wih spending a little extra for a cue I'll really enjoy owning and using, even if it doesn't make me play any better. Being happy with the cue in your hand is worth a lot when you spend so many hours using it.

So its desire driven more than anything else, and because you can. That is the kind of answer I'm looking for to be honest along with a few others posted. No gain just a talking piece that makes one feel better.

I have grown away from that now that I'm getting older, and in my kids I can see what I use to think. Now I'm at the stage if it works why impress people with sopmething that isn't any better. Flash vs Function
 
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