The Miz vs. Toby Sweet.....................

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know him a little bit....that’s the worst thing I ever seen him do...he not only missed...
...he played it wrong....the shot is high right....ease it in slow...9-ball to the other side.
...looked like he changed his mind and put speed on it to get to middle table.

Those tables are GCIs with the original generous pockets.

Had a buddy play that shot on Souquet...7-2 up,,race to nine...rattled it, lost 9-7.
...that’s what I loved about Efren’s game...he could hit a ball slow under heat.

He took the shot for granted - we’ve all done it before way more than Toby has. It's hard to second guess a player of Toby's level who has successfully run out the last 3 balls of a similar layout likely 99+% of the time, but I agree the 8-ball in the opposite corner would appear to of been the correct play. I’m not quite sure why he was popping it hard enough to get the cue ball back towards the middle of the table to play the eight ball in the same pocket, but obviously that's what he felt most comfortable doing at that moment, and as good as he was playing there was no reason to think that he wouldn't.

Everyone knows as far as shots down the rails, the harder you hit it, the tighter the pocket gets. Because he hit it fat and missed, the cue ball didn’t come out nearly as far as he wanted to anyway. He just had to hit the shot hard enough to get the cue ball slightly off the rail and play the 8 in the opposite corner. To me, this is a great example of a situation where he likely got lazy because of assuming the easy pockets as opposed to if he’d been playing on a tight pocket table, he'd of been far less likely to take the shot for granted.
 
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wahcheck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sweet Strokes

Only one of them was named Sweet, but both of their strokes were Sweet.

If anybody ever wanted to know what the meaning of "stroke" was in pool, they should watch this video......
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Did you happen to know Bill Hendricks intercollegiate 14.1 champ from SIU Carbondale in the 60's?

No, but I heard there was a Very good 200 ball runner that had moved on just a yr or 2 before I arrived. Dennis Gieske, AKA Tex, and the Great Bowler who also was in school at the time was also a good 14.1 player, tho not a much over a 50 ball runner/John Russo. Did visit em a few yrs back in AZ at a cigar club, and stayed at his home. One of the Cigar members was the TX Cop that's been on National news more than once/doing his border/control with his Cowboy Hat on.
 
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PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
I know him a little bit....that’s the worst thing I ever seen him do...he not only missed...
...he played it wrong....the shot is high right....ease it in slow...9-ball to the other side.
...looked like he changed his mind and put speed on it to get to middle table.

He was definitely not committed to the shot, or not focused.

Are you saying he should have played for the 9 in the side, or the 9 in the opposite corner as the 7?
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
He was definitely not committed to the shot, or not focused.

Are you saying he should have played for the 9 in the side, or the 9 in the opposite corner as the 7?

Opposite corner....actually, I might have the wrong ball number..I’ll go back and watch.
Lots of players don’t want to hit a ball slow when th pressure hits...I was surprised that
Toby is one of them.
...when he’s right, he’s as nice to watch as Buddy.
 

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He was definitely not committed to the shot, or not focused.

Are you saying he should have played for the 9 in the side, or the 9 in the opposite corner as the 7?
If I’m not mistaken, the eight ball was on the table as well. With the angle Toby had on the seven ball, a stun stop shot at low speed would have resulted in the cue ball Coming a little off the cushion leaving a nearly straight shot on the eight ball in the other corner pocket, with the 9-ball right there as well.
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
If I’m not mistaken, the eight ball was on the table as well. With the angle Toby had on the seven ball, a stun stop shot at low speed would have resulted in the cue ball Coming a little off the cushion leaving a nearly straight shot on the eight ball in the other corner pocket, with the 9-ball right there as well.

Correct, I was actually asking about the 8. That's the way I would have played for the 8 as well--in the opposite corner as the 7.

Maybe he didn't want to hit it with that little stop, stun shot as you called it, but I think it was the right shot.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
Correct, I was actually asking about the 8. That's the way I would have played for the 8 as well--in the opposite corner as the 7.

Maybe he didn't want to hit it with that little stop, stun shot as you called it, but I think it was the right shot.

Yeah...it was the 7 to the 8...there was nothing tricky about it...
...if you can hit a ball slow under heat.
 

Johnson

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Top notch match, top notch players with top notch commentary. I had read several stories about Toby but had never seen him play, him and the Miz both still had lots of game in their 50's. It's a shame that this or no other senior tour has taken off. Billy, Grady (RIP) and Jeremy Jones are the absolute best commentators hands down.
 

misterpoole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They both had very nice classic looking steel jointed cues. Dont know what Toby liked but i beleive Mizerak was hocking Searing cues in those days.
Agree he chose to make the 8 in the same pocket as the 7, but not 100% committed.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No, but I heard there was a Very good 200 ball runner that had moved on just a yr or 2 before I arrived. Dennis Gieske, AKA Tex, and the Great Bowler who also was in school at the time was also a good 14.1 player, tho not a much over a 50 ball runner/John Russo. Did visit em a few yrs back in AZ at a cigar club, and stayed at his home. One of the Cigar members was the TX Cop that's been on National news more than once/doing his border/control with his Cowboy Hat on.

I moved away from St Louis in 2007 and I suspect Bill has met his maker by now but he was a great 14.1 player. Also played good 3 cushion billiards.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
thanks for making thisavailable to us

it was a great pleasure to see and hear the players i used to watch and play

billy and grady were terrific

billy incardone is a very interesting commentator

he and grady seem to be very intelligt and not just pool

i love it when grady exposes billy for his tight matching up

or lack of gamble at other games
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Send all your thanks to Accu-Stats. They've been putting up a bunch of great old matches during this 'rona deal. Go on their Youtube channel, subscribe and click the reminder bell for all new stuff.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Does Toby still play and where does he reside at these days?

He lives in Rockland county NY. He use to mostly hang out at Diamond Jim's in Nanuet and play maybe once a week but he may be doing more painting these days.
 
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Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
Does Toby still play and where does he reside at these days?

he had been living in FL but came back to Rockland County, NY and before covid he was reported to be regularly hanging at Diamond Jim's in Nanuet, NY

my good friend and a former road player, Bobby Hunt, always says that Toby Sweet is his 9b hero and that he tried to emulate much of what Toby did. Says he was sitting watching Toby play one day long ago and overheard Allen Hopkins and Buddy Hall discussing Toby and saying he was the best pushout 9b player to ever play the game. Bobby agreed. :thumbup:

This really was enjoyable to watch despite Toby throwing a shoe down the home stretch. And yeah, it was a who's who of killers playing that event.

I want Taco Bell to get back in the sponsorship game. ;)

best,
brian kc
 
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Tin Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I really loved this match! I had never seen Toby play before and I really love the way he played this game. I will look into accu-stats and see if there are more matches of his. And of course I will listen forever to Billy and Grady.

I don't read anything into his miss on the hill. We've all done it a million times. He was hitting them so well and the pockets were playing so large he just didn't expect he could miss and put a little too much attention onto the cue ball. Maybe it was a trace of hill nerves, maybe it was just a lapse in concentration, who knows? But everyone misses. I think he played a phenomenal match.

Couple of shots I wanted to talk about. At 1:26:26 he fires at a tough 5 ball with low inside english. Grady suggested a safety was better because he was a serious underdog to make that shot. But he didn't talk about what that safety was. I feel the shot there was to cut to 5 ball thinly to the left side rail and letting it trickle to the end rail. The cue ball path would be a rolling ball with some right spin to go end rail, side rail, other side rail, and hopefully in back of the 9 ball. The reason I like this shot is because I'm probably 50/50 to get the hook behind the 9 ball. Even if I miss the hook I'm leaving a length of the table bank at best and with the other balls on the rail by the side it's unlikely he's going to have a good return safe. If we ran it 100 times I think I'll win from there a good 70-75 times. But if I have to shoot that shot I think I'm a serious dog.

The other shot was at 55:33. They kept talking about how tying up a ball was no good because the 1-9 combination was on. They also talked about how there was no kick. But to me it looked like kicking to the end rail with a little low right and trying to come straight back at the one was the best shot. I think I'm an underdog to hit the ball but I will be close and can probably hit it a good 30% of the time. When I do I'm going to have enough speed and will likely split the balls somehow. There are a lot of loose balls to get behind or I could leave a bank or have other balls blocking a return shot. If I miss the one ball it is likely because I hit the 5 or the 6, so there remains a chance one of those balls interferes with the combination or disturbs the table lay. Now, if Toby had a sure fire way of moving the 9 or 1 AND creating some work then I'd be all for it, but it looked like he had to get lucky to disturb those balls anyway. I think his best chance was the one rail kick that no one talked about. Giving Miz ball in hand on big pockets is rarely the right choice. He actually got pretty lucky to break up the combination and leave the 4 tough and it still didn't stop Steve, so that shows how desperate his attempt was. Go ahead and kick at it.

Again, not picking on Toby because he is obviously a world class 9 ball player. Just wanting to have some constructive conversation about a few spots that came up.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
I really loved this match! I had never seen Toby play before and I really love the way he played this game. I will look into accu-stats and see if there are more matches of his. And of course I will listen forever to Billy and Grady.

I don't read anything into his miss on the hill. We've all done it a million times. He was hitting them so well and the pockets were playing so large he just didn't expect he could miss and put a little too much attention onto the cue ball. Maybe it was a trace of hill nerves, maybe it was just a lapse in concentration, who knows? But everyone misses. I think he played a phenomenal match.

Couple of shots I wanted to talk about. At 1:26:26 he fires at a tough 5 ball with low inside english. Grady suggested a safety was better because he was a serious underdog to make that shot. But he didn't talk about what that safety was. I feel the shot there was to cut to 5 ball thinly to the left side rail and letting it trickle to the end rail. The cue ball path would be a rolling ball with some right spin to go end rail, side rail, other side rail, and hopefully in back of the 9 ball. The reason I like this shot is because I'm probably 50/50 to get the hook behind the 9 ball. Even if I miss the hook I'm leaving a length of the table bank at best and with the other balls on the rail by the side it's unlikely he's going to have a good return safe. If we ran it 100 times I think I'll win from there a good 70-75 times. But if I have to shoot that shot I think I'm a serious dog.

(The other shot was at 55:33. They kept talking about how tying up a ball was no good because the 1-9 combination was on. They also talked about how there was no kick. But to me it looked like kicking to the end rail with a little low right and trying to come straight back at the one was the best shot. I think I'm an underdog to hit the ball but I will be close and can probably hit it a good 30% of the time. When I do I'm going to have enough speed and will likely split the balls somehow. There are a lot of loose balls to get behind or I could leave a bank or have other balls blocking a return shot. If I miss the one ball it is likely because I hit the 5 or the 6, so there remains a chance one of those balls interferes with the combination or disturbs the table lay. Now, if Toby had a sure fire way of moving the 9 or 1 AND creating some work then I'd be all for it, but it looked like he had to get lucky to disturb those balls anyway. I think his best chance was the one rail kick that no one talked about. Giving Miz ball in hand on big pockets is rarely the right choice. He actually got pretty lucky to break up the combination and leave the 4 tough and it still didn't stop Steve, so that shows how desperate his attempt was. Go ahead and kick at it.

Again, not picking on Toby because he is obviously a world class 9 ball player. Just wanting to have some constructive conversation about a few spots that came up.

That was the shot that I saw...3-cushion influence
 
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