Brandon Shuff on Bonus Ball

Roger Long · Feb 8, 2014

As I was chatting with Steve Strain (Bonus Ball play-by-play announcer) after last night's match, Brandon Shuff came up and congratulated Steve on the great job he and the production crew are doing, and then proceeded to express his excitement over the news that ESPN3 is showing an interest in Bonus Ball.

So I took the opportunity to inform Brandon that some of us have held the opinion that the Bonus Ball players may only be expressing support for the game because they are receiving paychecks from the WPBL. You should have seen and heard the reaction I got! I don't recall all of his exact words, but Brandon made it perfectly clear that he and every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised.

Roger

rezin8 · Feb 8, 2014

Roger Long said:
As I was chatting with Steve Strain (Bonus Ball play-by-play announcer) after last night's match, Brandon Shuff came up and congratulated Steve on the great job he and the production crew are doing, and then proceeded to express his excitement over the news that ESPN3 is showing an interest in Bonus Ball.

So I took the opportunity to inform Brandon that some of us have held the opinion that the Bonus Ball players may only be expressing support for the game because they are receiving paychecks from the WPBL. You should have seen and heard the reaction I got! I don't recall all of his exact words, but Brandon made it perfectly clear that he and every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised.

Roger

Roger, while I don't doubt that the players are enjoying the game, something tells me that they don't think it's the "best game ever devised". I personally don't understand all the hate it gets on the forums... It's not a bad game, it looks fun to play, and you have the top players in the world playing.

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

If forum members showed up to the arena and saw the intensity during these playoffs then it might be another story. These guys are fighting for the cash and the team aspect is interesting because if you dog it then you cost your team dough. If people think it is all about the money for the players they are wrong though because it is not a ton of money, most of the players believe in it and want change.

Jeremy Jones told me last night that it is his second favorite game after one pocket. Brandon told me last night that he does not get why all the hate from people on it. Sure things did not go as planned for any of us involved but an effort is being made. Talk to some of the players if you can and see what they have to say.

Bonus Ball is doing a charity event for the Philippines. They had JR Martinez from Dancing with the Stars on the other night talking about Operation Finally Home. Bonus Ball has been on the local news and is going to be on ESPN3. I think a good deal of stuff going on is positive and you do not see that often, what is being done is better for the image of pocket billiards. Making it a sport and not a game with the teams, shot clock and scoreboard.

I know people are painting the picture that Bonus Ball caused events like Tunica to stop because of a poor turnout but that is untrue. The numbers just did not make sense for Tunica and nearly all Bonus Ball players showed there also so don't believe the misinformation. If it hurt an event then show the hard numbers on what players involved with Bonus Ball showed up or didn't and those who did or didn't the year before.

Bonus Ball was a convenient scapegoat for the failings of events but those events already did not do well or make sense financially. Someone comes on the forum and says Bonus Ball hurt an event with no facts to support it as in numbers and people actually believe it.

The US Open events had better numbers I believe this past year because of all the players in Vegas. I really don't see how it hurt any event and if it is about politics or stuff to do with the players and what they think about certain events and promoters then it is not about Bonus Ball because those thoughts and feelings the players have were there for awhile.

mikefingers · Feb 8, 2014

bogus ball????

I believe all the pro's playing Bonus Ball would change their tune if the weekly paychecks stopped coming! what are they getting... like $1000 a week??? I would love it also if I depended on that money to live!!

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

mikefingers said:
I believe all the pro's playing Bonus Ball would change their tune if the weekly paychecks stopped coming! what are they getting... like $1000 a week??? I would love it also if I depended on that money to live!!

Your statement is bogus. They get paid per match actually.

sharkmate · Feb 8, 2014

Whats not to like?

Bonus Ball is dynamite! The best players- the best equipment- the best arena- the best referee and ladies so what are ya'all complainin about the ppv price??It so reasonable its a joke and its supporting real talent not some de-shelved pool hustler predators

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

sharkmate said:
Bonus Ball is dynamite! The best players- the best equipment- the best arena- the best referee and ladies so what are ya'all complainin about the ppv price??It so reasonable its a joke and its supporting real talent not some de-shelved pool hustler predators

I do wish it was free, I am not someone who believe in PPV especially with pool. I think if it was free then many on the forum would check it out and God forbid actually like it.

sjm · Feb 8, 2014

Roger Long said:
As I was chatting with Steve Strain (Bonus Ball play-by-play announcer) after last night's match, Brandon Shuff came up and congratulated Steve on the great job he and the production crew are doing, and then proceeded to express his excitement over the news that ESPN3 is showing an interest in Bonus Ball.

So I took the opportunity to inform Brandon that some of us have held the opinion that the Bonus Ball players may only be expressing support for the game because they are receiving paychecks from the WPBL. You should have seen and heard the reaction I got! I don't recall all of his exact words, but Brandon made it perfectly clear that he and every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised.

Roger

One day, I truly hope that those associated with Bonus Ball come to a conclusion they seem to have failed to reach form the get go --

Whether the players enjoy playing Bonus Ball is trivial relative to whether people enjoy watching it.

For over a year, the proprietors have tried to sell this as "the game the pros want to play." Who cares what they want to play? They just want to earn an income and would fall in love with one handed jacked up eight ball last pocket if the pay was right. I'm glad for Brandon, but baffled that this remains the marketing angle of the WPBL.

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

sjm said:
One day, I truly hope that those associated with Bonus Ball come to a conclusion they seem to have failed to reach form the get go --

Whether the players enjoy playing Bonus Ball is trivial relative to whether people enjoy watching it.

For over a year, the proprietors have tried to sell this as "the game the pros want to play." Who cares what they want to play? They just want to earn an income and would fall in love with one handed jacked up eight ball last pocket if the pay was right. I'm glad for Brandon, but baffled that this remains the marketing angle of the WPBL.

I think a good way to have introduced this new game would have been for the WPBL to have the teams playing 8 ball, 9 or 10 ball and Bonus Ball so you have a mix of games but that is just my personal opinion. Do not get me wrong some I am certain are there for a paycheck but not everyone, not every athlete in pro sports like NFL, NBA and MLB are there just for the money.

SJDinPHX · Feb 8, 2014

Fast Lenny said:
I think a good way to have introduced this new game would have been for the WPBL to have the teams playing 8 ball, 9 or 10 ball and Bonus Ball so you have a mix of games but that is just my personal opinion. Do not get me wrong some I am certain are there for a paycheck but not everyone, not every athlete in pro sports like NFL, NBA and MLB are there just for the money.

Leonard, you know I luv ya like a brother..and it pains me to see you so disillusioned about Bonus Ball !..As SJM and I, and MANY others have said, had they played almost ANY other game but BB, they may have gotten enough support to survive !..I hate to sound like a knocker, but the combination of HORRIBLE, amateurish, business decisions, and Ciborak's ego driven insistence to force HIS game on us, almost guaranteed failure !

You know I love "moving games" and there were some good concepts (arena, city teams, etc.) but they had NO chance of succeeding in its chosen, confusing format !..I would lay you ten cases of YJ, to one bottle, that Bonus Ball will not be around by 2015 !..ESPN 3, is not HBO you know, and it sounds like Ciborak and his investors, are putting up most of the money to get it on the air at all !..I will be surprised, (actually astonished) if its used for more than "dead air time" filler.. It sounds like even Roger Long, is starting to wake up !

ceebee · Feb 8, 2014

Question >>> If they are gonna have teams with different city's name, why aren't there home teams & visitors, playing in the home team of their respective cities. That might generate some city-region rivalry & bring in more fan support.

If all of Pro Football was held in Chicago, Pro Football wouldn't be very big,

If the strategy format doesn't gain any traction, maybe they could go to 9 Ball (winner breaks)

Just an idea.

real bartram · Feb 8, 2014

Roger Long said:
As I was chatting with Steve Strain (Bonus Ball play-by-play announcer) after last night's match, Brandon Shuff came up and congratulated Steve on the great job he and the production crew are doing, and then proceeded to express his excitement over the news that ESPN3 is showing an interest in Bonus Ball.

So I took the opportunity to inform Brandon that some of us have held the opinion that the Bonus Ball players may only be expressing support for the game because they are receiving paychecks from the WPBL. You should have seen and heard the reaction I got! I don't recall all of his exact words, but Brandon made it perfectly clear that he and every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised.

Roger

Lol
That's why the pros play bonus ball sets for action all the time

Island Drive · Feb 8, 2014

Roger Long said:
As I was chatting with Steve Strain (Bonus Ball play-by-play announcer) after last night's match, Brandon Shuff came up and congratulated Steve on the great job he and the production crew are doing, and then proceeded to express his excitement over the news that ESPN3 is showing an interest in Bonus Ball.

So I took the opportunity to inform Brandon that some of us have held the opinion that the Bonus Ball players may only be expressing support for the game because they are receiving paychecks from the WPBL. You should have seen and heard the reaction I got! I don't recall all of his exact words, but Brandon made it perfectly clear that he and every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised.

Roger

Great news thx for sharing and for asking the difficult questions.

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

SJDinPHX said:
Leonard, you know I luv ya like a brother..and it pains me to see you so disillusioned about Bonus Ball !..As SJM and I have said, had they played almost ANY other game but BB, they may have gotten enough support to survive !..I hate to sound like a knocker, but the combination of HORRIBLE, amateurish, business decisions, and Ciborak's ego driven insistence to force HIS game on us, almost guaranteed failure !

You know I love "moving games" and there were some good concepts (arena, city teams, etc.) but they had NO chance of succeeding in its chosen, confusing format !..I would lay you ten cases of YJ, to one bottle, that Bonus Ball will not be around by 2015 !..ESPN 3, is not HBO you know, and I think Ciborak and his investors, are putting up most of the money to get it on the air at all !..I will be surprised, (actually astonished) if its used for more than "dead air time" filler.. It sounds like even Roger Long, is starting to wake up !

As I stated bud I do believe doing Bonus Ball as a game standing on its own was not the way to go and a mix of games with the teams would be excellent. I think people would be more accepting and get slowly introduced to Bonus Ball coupled with say 8 and 9 or 10 ball as part of the matches.

Celtic · Feb 8, 2014

rezin8 said:
while I don't doubt that the players are enjoying the game, something tells me that they don't think it's the "best game ever devised". I personally don't understand all the hate it gets on the forums...

I think you answered your own question there.

A large part of the issue I have with the game is some of the BS "marketing" that goes on with the game, such as that very statement

"every other Bonus Ball player thinks it's the best game ever devised"

Even if some pro said that we all know it is a BS statement that wreaks of mass hyperbole. Do the supporters and promoters of Bonus Ball think people are really going to read that and believe it is a true statement that comes from the heart? Do they actually believe it themselves? Seriously?

It is one thing to say the game is good, to ask people to give it a chance, but the ridiculousness of the way it is presented as the next coming of Christ is freaking absurd and turns people off more often then not.

trob · Feb 8, 2014

BFd it doesn't change some simple facts
1) of course there playing hard. There competitiveness is what made them rise to the top

2) there desperate and will play anything that gets them paid. Even if they thought the game is shit there not going to say it out loud to us as long as the pay checks are rolling in. Truth is were all pool players and we love ANY game that puts a cue in our hand.. That's our sickness lol

3) the game is worse to watch then one pocket and I REALLY tried to like it!!

Fast Lenny said:
If forum members showed up to the arena and saw the intensity during these playoffs then it might be another story. These guys are fighting for the cash and the team aspect is interesting because if you dog it then you cost your team dough. If people think it is all about the money for the players they are wrong though because it is not a ton of money, most of the players believe in it and want change.

Jeremy Jones told me last night that it is his second favorite game after one pocket. Brandon told me last night that he does not get why all the hate from people on it. Sure things did not go as planned for any of us involved but an effort is being made. Talk to some of the players if you can and see what they have to say.

Bonus Ball is doing a charity event for the Philippines. They had JR Martinez from Dancing with the Stars on the other night talking about Operation Finally Home. Bonus Ball has been on the local news and is going to be on ESPN3. I think a good deal of stuff going on is positive and you do not see that often, what is being done is better for the image of pocket billiards. Making it a sport and not a game with the teams, shot clock and scoreboard.

I know people are painting the picture that Bonus Ball caused events like Tunica to stop because of a poor turnout but that is untrue. The numbers just did not make sense for Tunica and nearly all Bonus Ball players showed there also so don't believe the misinformation. If it hurt an event then show the hard numbers on what players involved with Bonus Ball showed up or didn't and those who did or didn't the year before.

Bonus Ball was a convenient scapegoat for the failings of events but those events already did not do well or make sense financially. Someone comes on the forum and says Bonus Ball hurt an event with no facts to support it as in numbers and people actually believe it.

The US Open events had better numbers I believe this past year because of all the players in Vegas. I really don't see how it hurt any event and if it is about politics or stuff to do with the players and what they think about certain events and promoters then it is not about Bonus Ball because those thoughts and feelings the players have were there for awhile.

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

trob said:
BFd it doesn't change some simple facts
1) of course there playing hard. There competitiveness is what made them rise to the top

2) there desperate and will play anything that gets them paid. Even if they thought the game is shit there not going to say it out loud to us as long as the pay checks are rolling in. Truth is were all pool players and we love ANY game that puts a cue in our hand.. That's our sickness lol

3) the game is worse to watch then one pocket and I REALLY tried to like it!!

I agree they are all competitive but some play harder then others. I personally know some of the players and have heard honest good things about it and also different opinions too. Your personal opinion on the game is just that and I know others feel the same and some different. I happen to like one pocket as it is my favorite game but I cannot stand watching 9 or 10 ball, different strokes they say.

Celtic · Feb 8, 2014

Fast Lenny said:
Someone comes on the forum and says Bonus Ball hurt an event with no facts to support it as in numbers and people actually believe it.

Greg Sullivan said it. He might be somewhat in the "know" on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQCWA9LFhu0

Scan to 29.00 to hear it from the man himself.

boogeyman · Feb 8, 2014

Fast Lenny said:
As I stated bud I do believe doing Bonus Ball as a game standing on its own was not the way to go and a mix of games with the teams would be excellent. I think people would be more accepting and get slowly introduced to Bonus Ball coupled with say 8 and 9 or 10 ball as part of the matches.

Fast Lenny: I love your support for Bonus Ball. It's in line with my own angle on the game.
Just not sure why you think BB does NOT do well on its own.
Having 8, 9, & 10 ball as part of the events would only serve to complicate matters.

The arena, scoreboard, colors, and everything else was built to speak to BB, and only BB.
In order to make and sell a product it has to be "dedicated" and the brand has to be as clear as possible.
Larry and company did just that with Bonus Ball.

Granted it takes time to learn the game, but heck, once learned, BB is a product that can't be "confused" with any other in the world.
Way to go guys, you will get there eventually and all the naysayers with simply go quiet!

Fast Lenny · Feb 8, 2014

Celtic said:
Greg Sullivan said it. He might be somewhat in the "know" on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQCWA9LFhu0

I watched the interview but still do not see facts supporting that Bonus Ball killed Tunica, even most haters of Bonus Ball know that. Majority of Bonus Ball players showed up for the Ultimate 10 ball there. Tunica was what killed Tunica, fans and players alike did not enjoy the venue there. Here is a quote from Billy on Tunica and I think others felt the same, it was spectators who did not go that was the issue and not the players.

wincardona said:
Well Doc, the mosquitoes were kind to all that attended the tournament this year, however, last year they were out in droves, as you may know. I still have scars from their bites on my legs and hands, and I was itching months after the tournament ended. That's not the only reason I didn't attend this year, my game is suffering to the point that I lost my interest in playing and that's pretty sad, playing one pocket is one of the only things I still enjoy at my age, along with eating. Not really, there are other things I enjoy, like trying to educate some of the players on the site (including you) on 'the right shot' Well, you know what I mean. I missed watching the top players play, especially one pocket where I could play along with them (in my mind) and learn what to and not to do which is always interesting to me. I agree that watching Ike play is fruitful and very beneficial for the reasons you explained, it's a challenge to pattern your game off of his play, but one that's rewarding. Of course watching the upper echelon players like Frost And Shane is very entertaining, however, like you say it's hard to envision yourself performing like them, so you really don't get as much out of watching them play as you would watching a mover like Ike.

It's not good news to hear that the attendance was down in both spectators and players, have my doubts whether there will be another one in Tunica. Casino tournaments rely on bodies, not on getting the top players to attend, which is good but not what sustains that type of tournament. The Derby City is the type of tournament that casinos are interested in...attendance wise...and even that tournament is starting to suffer. Guess the next tournament you may see me will be in Indiana (Derby City) unless you're going to Vegas in July. No mosquitoes there, and check in time is much earlier than 3:00

Dr. Bill

Brandon Shuff on Bonus Ball

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