1 pocket rules question
- Thread starter henchmen3
- Start date
You can play either way, but the BCA/WSR rule (can't remember which, maybe both), only the base of the ball needs to be over the line.
Technically it only needs to be on the line, since the line itself is considered out of the kitchen.
pj
chgo
I say you treat CB/ OB the same way, be it fair side of line touching or over it.
But IIRC, that is not how the law was writ.
But IIRC, that is not how the law was writ.
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Brandon, is correct.
Your best bet, however, is to reach an agreement with your opponent ahead of time, as to ball placement, to avoid and conflict. Most folks use a balls width because it's easier to judge.
If there is a pencil line indicating the head string then placing the cue ball correctly becomes much easier. :smile:
Your best bet, however, is to reach an agreement with your opponent ahead of time, as to ball placement, to avoid and conflict. Most folks use a balls width because it's easier to judge.
If there is a pencil line indicating the head string then placing the cue ball correctly becomes much easier. :smile:
Discuss prior and have a string on-hand!!!!! Agreed.
OnePocket .org deferes to BCA rules in this case. And that is: the cue ball base has to be behind the line but the object ball base can be on the line or above it.
Many old time One Pocket players go by any part of the ball touching the imaginary line.
Many old time One Pocket players go by any part of the ball touching the imaginary line.
At the top of the OnePocket.org rules page, there is this blurb:
Unless clearly contradicted below, general pocket billiards rules of play and etiquette apply to One Pocket, and complete General Rules are available from the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA).
So, we march over to the WPA website for their General Rules of Play, and we see this:
1.5 Cue Ball in Hand
When the cue ball is in hand, the shooter may place the cue ball anywhere on the playing surface (see 8.1 Parts of the Table) and may continue to move the cue ball until he executes a shot. (See definition 8.2 Shot.) Players may use any part of the cue stick to move the cue ball, including the tip, but not with a forward stroke motion. In some games and for most break shots, placement of the cue ball may be restricted to the area behind the head string depending on the rules of the game, and then 6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement and 6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String may apply.
When the shooter has the cue ball in hand behind the head string and all the legal object balls are behind the head string, he may request the legal object ball nearest the head string to be spotted. If two or more balls are equal distance from the head string, the shooter may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted. An object ball that rests exactly on the head string is playable.
When the cue ball is in hand, the shooter may place the cue ball anywhere on the playing surface (see 8.1 Parts of the Table) and may continue to move the cue ball until he executes a shot. (See definition 8.2 Shot.) Players may use any part of the cue stick to move the cue ball, including the tip, but not with a forward stroke motion. In some games and for most break shots, placement of the cue ball may be restricted to the area behind the head string depending on the rules of the game, and then 6.10 Bad Cue Ball Placement and 6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String may apply.
When the shooter has the cue ball in hand behind the head string and all the legal object balls are behind the head string, he may request the legal object ball nearest the head string to be spotted. If two or more balls are equal distance from the head string, the shooter may designate which of the equidistant balls is to be spotted. An object ball that rests exactly on the head string is playable.
Notice that last sentence (the bolded red). As PJ and Tennesseejoe say, the object ball merely needs to rest on the head string to be considered playable.
-Sean
It varies from pool hall to pool hall,so do yourself a favor,if you r n a strange place,ask about this rule before u start playing,because it is just a matter of time before it comes up and it will come up,and it can n will make the difference of winning or loseing, so go over all the HOUSE RULES before starting!
Your league needs the general disclaimer: In the absence of any special local rule, onepocket.org rules apply which defer to WPA rules for general situations.
If a ball is over the line or no should be based on the same thinking as a ball hanging off the lip of a pocket but not going in. If a ball edge is on the line and someone wants to say the ball is "over" or not on the line and not the middle of the ball where it rests on the cloth, then a ball hanging a bit over the hole should be counted as "IN" and pushed in the pocket. Seems pretty logical to me and a good way to explain to someone why the contact point on the cloth should be where the ball actually is.
I have always used the base of the ball (Part touching the table) as what is and is not over the line.
one pocket ettiquette
i agree with the oldtimers that any thing touching the line is not playable. but however i always thought it to be some sort of variation of that where its the base of the ball is over the line u could shoot it. somebody post some pics of the shot/lie in question mayb we could get a better understanding.:grin:
i agree with the oldtimers that any thing touching the line is not playable. but however i always thought it to be some sort of variation of that where its the base of the ball is over the line u could shoot it. somebody post some pics of the shot/lie in question mayb we could get a better understanding.:grin:
The line rule is a "house" rule (rule books be damned). IOW, every pool room defines the rule differently and it's one of those things you should clarify with your opponent before the match starts to avoid misunderstandings.
Experienced 1pocket players will usually clarify three rules before starting play: Whether a ball has to be completely over the line to be consider "out"; how "sleepers will be handled -- "you snooze you lose" or spot them up after each player has had an inning; and whether the three consecutive foul rule (loss of game) is in effect.
Lou Figueroa
i will often also clarify whether its cue ball only or any ball foul if you inadvertently touch it
Experienced 1pocket players will usually clarify three rules before starting play: Whether a ball has to be completely over the line to be consider "out"; how "sleepers will be handled -- "you snooze you lose" or spot them up after each player has had an inning; and whether the three consecutive foul rule (loss of game) is in effect.
Lou Figueroa[/QUOTE]
Lou, is spot on with this one.
Get it? Spot on? You know...spot? :smile:
Lou Figueroa[/QUOTE]
Lou, is spot on with this one.
Get it? Spot on? You know...spot? :smile:
Sorry to stir the pot, but...
...there is another possibility.
Disclaimers: First, I completely agree that the rules should be decided upon before the match. That's a no-brainer. If the rules that you decide upon for those issues not specifically covered by 1P rules are anything but WSR, this post is IRRELEVANT. Second, I am not a 1P player, and though I know the rules I have no earthly idea whether or not the shot discussed below might be desirable from a strategic point of view. But neither do I care. I know that bizarre things happen all the time concerning the rules, and my only interest here is that everyone have a complete understanding of what is technically legal under WSR.
So, here is the situation. If you choose to play by WSR, and defer to them concerning the OP situation governed properly by WSR 6.10 (which is referred to in WSR 1.5, as noted in post 8, and is applicable), then that ball behind the line might actually be playable because of a loophole in 6.10.
And now, instead of retyping or copying the entire discussion, I refer you to a thread from earlier this year, which you only need to pick up at post #53. The shot diagrammed in that post is relevant to this discussion and, when WSR is governing a 1P game, is just as legal in 1P as in 14.1.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=259266&highlight=kitchen
:smile:
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
...there is another possibility.
Disclaimers: First, I completely agree that the rules should be decided upon before the match. That's a no-brainer. If the rules that you decide upon for those issues not specifically covered by 1P rules are anything but WSR, this post is IRRELEVANT. Second, I am not a 1P player, and though I know the rules I have no earthly idea whether or not the shot discussed below might be desirable from a strategic point of view. But neither do I care. I know that bizarre things happen all the time concerning the rules, and my only interest here is that everyone have a complete understanding of what is technically legal under WSR.
So, here is the situation. If you choose to play by WSR, and defer to them concerning the OP situation governed properly by WSR 6.10 (which is referred to in WSR 1.5, as noted in post 8, and is applicable), then that ball behind the line might actually be playable because of a loophole in 6.10.
And now, instead of retyping or copying the entire discussion, I refer you to a thread from earlier this year, which you only need to pick up at post #53. The shot diagrammed in that post is relevant to this discussion and, when WSR is governing a 1P game, is just as legal in 1P as in 14.1.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=259266&highlight=kitchen
:smile:
Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net
Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:
http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx
* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
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Hey Lou,do u read all the posts in a thread before u post,i dont think u did here,because ours are just about the same,but anyway it is nice to know that u see the same as i do on this subject,makes me feel a little sharper today!
It's both. :wink: The BCA adopted the WPA rules for every game. In fact, if you look up the rules on the BCA website you will see they are on WPA letterhead.