John Barton us open ban

I have been trying to take the high road and not saying anything. However, it's time for me to respond.

Yes, Detective Edge of Metro PD closed the case due to insufficient evidence. This happens all the time to much, much more serious crimes/allegations. I was disappointed, but the decision was made.

The building owner/manager refused to release the camera surveillance video because he didn't want to get dragged into an Illegal Gambling activity on his property. Supposedly what we were doing was illegal gambling, according to the building owner and the person in the law office.

John Barton ran off as soon as I called 911. Why did he run off, if nothing happened? While John ran off, 2 complete strangers waited for over 40 minutes for the police to arrive. They were able to describe John's License Plate number, vehicle model, color, make, which allowed the police to track down his home address in Oklahoma. Heck, how many of us even know our own, or our spouse's car license plate number? Yet, these 2 independent witnesses -who stayed back for a very long time for the police to arrive- were able to describe his vehicle to a T. So for John to write the witnesses "refused" to give a statement is 100% false.

According to Detective Edge, the 2 witnesses did not actually witness the "point of impact", so it is very, very difficult to proceed. It makes sense in many ways.

The 2 independent witnesses and I were interviewed separately by 2 different police officers. Here is the closing paragraph written by the police officer herself in the police report:

"Due to the mention facts and circumstances stated above, report taken for Battery, which Barton willfully and unlawfully used force and violence upon Hoang by head-butting Hoang's forehead area."

JB Cases said:

Update on the accusations of battery:

The detective closed the case for insufficient evidence. Until a few days ago I had not seen the police report.

Mike Hoang claimed I headbutted him but had zero mark on him and refused medical treatment. His witnesses said they saw no battery and they also refused to give a statement. No video evidence was presented.

I will be pursuing all available remedies under the law in civil court to have Mike Hoang answer for the many crimes he has committed against me.

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cardiac kid said:

Until I read the challenge from Michael on Facebook, I was not aware of this conflict. If someone challenges you and questions your ethics, both personal and business, what would YOU do?

The rest of your post was well written and I agree with most of it. Making John the bad guy here seems to be presumptive as WE do not know all the facts. And may never know them.

Lyn

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Lyn,

For the last several YEARS, on his Facebook page, John has been viciously attacking and bullying me on many fronts including my ethics, my character, my integrity, my products. I guess you missed all of those attacks on me all those times. Or should I have continued to "take it" and kept quiet like a good little boy? The last straw was when he took a lady's intellectual property and completely trashed it, trying to drag her in the middle of our situation. I got sick of his bullying and responded with my Facebook post. I did not out-of-nowhere call him out. Many people wrote publicly why I waited so long to speak up.

Yes, there are a lot more behind the scene that I chose not to share to the public.

I can tell you 100% factually that every incident that I have had with John has been at my booth, such as at the SBE, the APA World Pool Championship last year and this year's Matchroom's US Open when John seeked me out in front of my booth while I was minding to my business. I do have a very extensive camera system at our booth.

ShootingArts said:

Your post makes a lot of sense. Nothing at all has been presented here. However, I suspect the Open did not take action without either physical evidence or witnesses to the act. There is also the question of where the incident took place even if just a shouting match. Did John seek out Mike or vice versa? If it happened at one or the other's booth then the one coming to the other's location is well on his way to being in the wrong. Every incident on my business property went in my favor when the law arrived.

The immediate banning from that event and the next week's event makes me think that there was more to the incident than has been posted here. Banning of someone a week in advance seems odd and worth noting that john was banned from the APA event, not JB Cases. The business can be there, john can't. That speaks pretty loudly!

I think when and if we hear the other side of the story the bannings will seem most reasonable. I am sure john has the dubious distinction of being the most banned member of AZB!

Hu

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I am glad that you are happy with your purchase. This is what our country is all about, the freedom to choose for yourself, not being dictated nor bullied into something else. If you are happy with your choice, that's all that matters.

As for protection, I beg to differ from your opinion. I know of many, many people who routinely carry $20,000 worth of cues or more in their ACME cases. Recently, Melling's expensive personal cue was transported in an ACME case by a shipping company. The box was badly damaged, got banged up, badly messed up the case, but his cue was safe. This is public knowledge and directly from the person who shipped Melling's cue inside the ACME case.

Celophanewrap said:

I had never really compared the two, I just knew that I have been using a JB Rugged
and it has suited me just fine and served my needs quite well.
At the APA event I thought I might as well look at the two cases up close and as I
suspected, just like everything else - You get what you pay for.
As a pool player, you can put you treasured cues in a an Acme case and only have
yourself to blame if your cues get damaged. Lots of people will take that chance to save
a few bucks. or....
You can put your cues in a JB and rest easy in the knowledge that your cues will be
safe and sound, well protected and ready when you need them.
Personally, I prefer the quality of a JB, it's simply better and well worth what you might
pay for it.
Incidentally, I purchased my latest JB at the event and had a chance to talk to Karen
for a minute. She's so cool.
For me my history speaks to the difference, I own several JB cases, I own zero Acme
cases.

Click to expand...

john'a psycho side

Michael-Hoang said:

Yes, there are a lot more behind the scene that I chose not to share to the public.

I can tell you 100% factually that every incident that I have had with John has been at my booth, such as at the SBE, the APA World Pool Championship last year and this year's Matchroom's US Open when John seeked me out in front of my booth while I was minding to my business. I do have a very extensive camera system at our booth.

Click to expand...

Michael,

I have encountered john's psycho side quite a few times myself. It got bad enough I documented his threats. Just trying to be fairly low profile in this thread while trying to get people to think. Many many cases don't go forward for lack of evidence including murder cases. Lack of evidence is far from saying something isn't true.

Hu

Only one way to settle this, you both will need to send me a free case, I will review and put this to rest...


LoL

Acme? What Acme?

When the first comment appeared with "Acme" as a case name, I thought they were kidding - using Acme as a generic, Wiley Coyote-type product,something that you could easily mail-order, but that would cause a big blow-up in actual use.

Much to my surprise, several comments down the line it became clear that Acme was/is actually a name brand cue case. Ha ha, joke's on me.

Now, as best I can tell, JB doesn't like the "$297 on sale for only $100!" marketing ploy. I assure you, Mr. Barton, that we consumers were hip to this marketing/sales ploy decades ago, about the time we first got a few bucks from mowing lawns and went to buy our very own brand new baseball glove as we advanced in Little League.

Hmmm, do I choose the one on the K-Mart rack, it's only four dollars, and made out of "Water Repellent Vinyl!", or do I save up another twenty bucks to buy a genuine leather kid-size glove from a brand-name like Wilson, Rawlings, or Spalding?

For me the problem was solved my first season in the Majors because I held the winning raffle ticket from the local Little League fund raiser. I was presented with the finest Nocona leather baseball glove, professional quality in every detail, but sized for my young hand. I was in heaven. I learned literally first-hand about the quality of a well-made professional leather product. Even the Rawlings and Spalding gloves looked cheap compared to my Nocona.

Don't worry about us, JB, most of us know cheap Chinese when see it. Matter of fact, most of us know to assume a product is cheap Chinese until proven otherwise. We even know that cheap and Chinese is often perfectly fine for the limited use we might make of something we buy, especially if it will only get light and limited use. It hardly makes sense to spend $250 for a cue case to protect a $99 pool cue. But thanks for your concern anyway, and for your efforts to improve cases - every advance makes the others eventually offer similar improvements to keep up with your products.

p.s. I remember seeing UJ Pucket wander into our pool hall with his cue - no case, just butt and shaft in one hand, separated by his fingers, like he was going to twirl them like a baton. Everyone else who could play had an alligator pattern Fellini, but old UJ just carried his cue as carelessly as any banger.

I’m perfectly happy with my JB cases. You should be happy he gave you all this free advertising for your Acme cases.

If you have video please post it. Then we can all make an educated opinion about what happened and who is to blame.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

same or an old towel

Texdance said:

...

p.s. I remember seeing UJ Pucket wander into our pool hall with his cue - no case, just butt and shaft in one hand, separated by his fingers, like he was going to twirl them like a baton. Everyone else who could play had an alligator pattern Fellini, but old UJ just carried his cue as carelessly as any banger.

Click to expand...

Seems like me and UJ shared about everything but skill level. I thorough enjoyed his sixty minutes interview. Had me laughing most of the time, especially the line about nobody had shot so many times and still lost! That was the goal for awhile, let them shoot as much as possible.

If I didn't tote my cue in naked I wrapped it in an old towel. Somebody had to look closely to notice that I had a layer or two of towel between butt and shaft of my new moochie. Cost me fifty bucks, I did want to keep that shaft perfect as long as I could.

Hu

Texdance said:

When the first comment appeared with "Acme" as a case name, I thought they were kidding - using Acme as a generic, Wiley Coyote-type product,something that you could easily mail-order, but that would cause a big blow-up in actual use.

Much to my surprise, several comments down the line it became clear that Acme was/is actually a name brand cue case. Ha ha, joke's on me.

Now, as best I can tell, JB doesn't like the "$297 on sale for only $100!" marketing ploy. I assure you, Mr. Barton, that we consumers were hip to this marketing/sales ploy decades ago, about the time we first got a few bucks from mowing lawns and went to buy our very own brand new baseball glove as we advanced in Little League.

Hmmm, do I choose the one on the K-Mart rack, it's only four dollars, and made out of "Water Repellent Vinyl!", or do I save up another twenty bucks to buy a genuine leather kid-size glove from a brand-name like Wilson, Rawlings, or Spalding?

For me the problem was solved my first season in the Majors because I held the winning raffle ticket from the local Little League fund raiser. I was presented with the finest Nocona leather baseball glove, professional quality in every detail, but sized for my young hand. I was in heaven. I learned literally first-hand about the quality of a well-made professional leather product. Even the Rawlings and Spalding gloves looked cheap compared to my Nocona.

Don't worry about us, JB, most of us know cheap Chinese when see it. Matter of fact, most of us know to assume a product is cheap Chinese until proven otherwise. We even know that cheap and Chinese is often perfectly fine for the limited use we might make of something we buy, especially if it will only get light and limited use. It hardly makes sense to spend $250 for a cue case to protect a $99 pool cue. But thanks for your concern anyway, and for your efforts to improve cases - every advance makes the others eventually offer similar improvements to keep up with your products.

p.s. I remember seeing UJ Pucket wander into our pool hall with his cue - no case, just butt and shaft in one hand, separated by his fingers, like he was going to twirl them like a baton. Everyone else who could play had an alligator pattern Fellini, but old UJ just carried his cue as carelessly as any banger.

Click to expand...

(See my highlight in red)....No disrepect intened but....

No, you may not know "cheap Chinese" when (you/we) see it".. at least in this case. First your comment is very derogatory though I know your intentions were positive towards JB... Second, a lot of the issues John is bringing to light are of what you CAN'T "see" in case building. John has adressed these issues more times than I can remember, and IMHO they are viable and serious concerns. He has realized and brought to light a need in this industry, acted upon it and has succeeded. He has also created a look that has been accepted and desired. It's no surprise that others would want to capitalize on his fortune but in this case (pun intended) the imitators are using his visuals as their connect with the buyers and though John has spent years figuring out what look he wants for his product, it's really been about how it can protect the investment it caries. I believe that is his main focus and what drives his frustration towards these "look-a-like" cases. They claim to be the "same" but John has exposed they are not.

it may be sad or may be wrong, but if it isnt patented anyone can use it. so all is fair.
and as far as marketing things you can use what you like that isnt illegal. if the competitor doesnt like how you advertise, he can advertise that you adverse falsely if that is true.

it is all part of doing business and doing business is cutthroat. even with a patent some will do a knock off and take their chances. that is business. as a business owner you have to realize that and work around it.

i would be mad as hell also but that is business and competition wouldn't grow and keep prices in line without cutthroat practices. just think walmart, home depot,costco, and any cheaper brand of the same product you see in the stores.

Michael-Hoang said:

I have been trying to take the high road and not saying anything. However, it's time for me to respond.

Yes, Detective Edge of Metro PD closed the case due to insufficient evidence. This happens all the time to much, much more serious crimes/allegations. I was disappointed, but the decision was made.

The building owner/manager refused to release the camera surveillance video because he didn't want to get dragged into an Illegal Gambling activity on his property. Supposedly what we were doing was illegal gambling, according to the building owner and the person in the law office.

John Barton ran off as soon as I called 911. Why did he run off, if nothing happened? While John ran off, 2 complete strangers waited for over 40 minutes for the police to arrive. They were able to describe John's License Plate number, vehicle model, color, make, which allowed the police to track down his home address in Oklahoma. Heck, how many of us even know our own, or our spouse's car license plate number? Yet, these 2 independent witnesses -who stayed back for a very long time for the police to arrive- were able to describe his vehicle to a T. So for John to write the witnesses "refused" to give a statement is 100% false.

According to Detective Edge, the 2 witnesses did not actually witness the "point of impact", so it is very, very difficult to proceed. It makes sense in many ways.

The 2 independent witnesses and I were interviewed separately by 2 different police officers. Here is the closing paragraph written by the police officer herself in the police report:

"Due to the mention facts and circumstances stated above, report taken for Battery, which Barton willfully and unlawfully used force and violence upon Hoang by head-butting Hoang's forehead area."

Click to expand...

I understand wanting to take the high road but without your side of what transpired during the alleged assault you are allowing John to control the narrative and history.

Obviously you can choose to do whatever you want but with just one version of the story out there it becomes the default record and all you’ve accomplished is to give JB a load of publicity.

Lou Figueroa

I'm waiting for the "Head-butt Commemmorative" model case to come out.

Michael-Hoang said:

Yes, there are a lot more behind the scene that I chose not to share to the public.

I can tell you 100% factually that every incident that I have had with John has been at my booth, such as at the SBE, the APA World Pool Championship last year and this year's Matchroom's US Open when John seeked me out in front of my booth while I was minding to my business. I do have a very extensive camera system at our booth.

Click to expand...

Things happened at your booth
You have a very extensive camera system at your booth
No connection of the 2-hmmmmmm?

skins said:

(See my highlight in red)....No disrepect intened but....

No, you may not know "cheap Chinese" when (you/we) see it".. at least in this case. First your comment is very derogatory though I know your intentions were positive towards JB... Second, a lot of the issues John is bringing to light are of what you CAN'T "see" in case building. John has adressed these issues more times than I can remember, and IMHO they are viable and serious concerns. He has realized and brought to light a need in this industry, acted upon it and has succeeded. He has also created a look that has been accepted and desired. It's no surprise that others would want to capitalize on his fortune but in this case (pun intended) the imitators are using his visuals as their connect with the buyers and though John has spent years figuring out what look he wants for his product, it's really been about how it can protect the investment it caries. I believe that is his main focus and what drives his frustration towards these "look-a-like" cases. They claim to be the "same" but John has exposed they are not.

Click to expand...

It's not derogatory when you call a spade a spade , JB has only exposed the ones who believe in snake oil , I keep hearing all this nonsense on how other cases don't protect cues yet in 50yrs I've never had one damaged on know of anyone that has and it's certainly safe to say under normal conditions 99.9 pct of the time the 2 cases will preform the same for th 0.1 pct that choose to use their cases as a baseball bat a javelin or a soccer ball a JB case might be the better choice

1

lfigueroa said:

is to give JB a load of publicity.

Lou Figueroa

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I respectfully disagree, going to purchase an Acme case for my bar cue, never heard of them before this thread.


Didn't make sense to spend more on a case than my bar cue is worth, will give JB a shot down the line for something a little more special to me.

Will give my thoughts down the line after reviewing.

one stroke said:

It's not derogatory when you call a spade a spade , JB has only exposed the ones who believe in snake oil , I keep hearing all this nonsense on how other cases don't protect cues yet in 50yrs I've never had one damaged on know of anyone that has and it's certainly safe to say under normal conditions 99.9 pct of the time the 2 cases will preform the same for th 0.1 pct that choose to use their cases as a baseball bat a javelin or a soccer ball a JB case might be the better choice

1

Click to expand...

IMO "cheap Chinese" is an insult to John.. As for the rest, do as you wish. It wont affect anyone other than you. Hope you never experience that .1%

In regards to the "cheap Chinese" comments, USA better start paying close attention to global trade.

AliExpress has taken over, a mail order company in China, is offering products that cost five and ten times more here in USA,with free shipping. The quality of the products are often the same. I purchased a phone case for my iPhone for $6 that woudl have cost $50 here in USA. Quality is excellent.

China will be number one in the world someday, and if USA does not start paying attention, the economy here in the States will suffer big time.

Most people know that I am a "USA, ALL THE WAY" kind of gal, but money talks and B.S. walks. There are many cheap USA products as well. Buyer beware, no matter where the product comes from.

JAM said:

In regards to the "cheap Chinese" comments, USA better start paying close attention to global trade.

AliExpress has taken over, a mail order company in China, is offering products that cost five and ten times more here in USA,with free shipping. The quality of the products are often the same. I purchased a phone case for my iPhone for $6 that woudl have cost $50 here in USA. Quality is excellent.

China will be number one in the world someday, and if USA does not start paying attention, the economy here in the States will suffer big time.

Most people know that I am a "USA, ALL THE WAY" kind of gal, but money talks and B.S. walks. There are many cheap USA products as well. Buyer beware, no matter where the product comes from.

Click to expand...

The only way the USA will get back into the competition is for the American workers' wages to be dropped to the level that the workers make in China and the other third world countries.

That is never going to happen.

I was in Taiwan a couple of weeks ago and I visited a friend's plastic factory while I was there. They make all kinds of things (safety helmets, kayak paddles, chairs, you name it...) and I saw some items that they produced and packaged and then sold for export at $1.50 each that would cost you around $15 in Walmart when the item gets to the USA. If they can make a profit at $1.50 each, how much do you think an American plastic company would have to sell them for to make a profit. A hell of a lot more than that.

Americans have priced themselves out of the market when it comes to producing cheap consumer items. As long as things can be produced cheaper overseas, they are going to be made there.

HawaiianEye said:

The only way the USA will get back into the competition is for the American workers' wages to be dropped to the level that the workers make in China and the other third world countries.

That is never going to happen.

I was in Taiwan a couple of weeks ago and I visited a friend's plastic factory while I was there. They make all kinds of things (safety helmets, kayak paddles, chairs, you name it...) and I saw some items that they produced and packaged and then sold for export at $1.50 each that would cost you around $15 in Walmart when the item gets to the USA. If they can make a profit at $1.50 each, how much do you think an American plastic company would have to sell them for to make a profit. A hell of a lot more than that.

Americans have priced themselves out of the market when it comes to producing cheap consumer items. As long as things can be produced cheaper overseas, they are going to be made there.

Click to expand...

My knowledge is about a decade outdated I reckon but moderately skilled assembly line workers in china were paid less than a dollar an hour. No benefits so that was total cost to the employer. The same position paid about thirty an hour in the US with benefits and safety practices in the US kicking the cost per employee up to over fifty an hour.

The only thing amazing is that the US has still managed to manufacture a few things when the cost for US labor is fifty times or more what it is in third world countries. china should be called emerging at this point and is farming out some of it's manufacturing to bottom of the heap countries near them like north korea.

Aside from true costs there are tariffs. Someone asked years ago why we couldn't sell our cars in south korea when they first started into our market. Their economy car sold for about ten thousand or a bit less here. After tariffs our economy car sold for over forty thousand US there. Try selling a Vega for over forty thousand!

There is a lot of garbage from overseas and I don't know if some of the countries can match our raw material quality. With the coming of NC manufacturing there is little reason they can't turn out products that are well made if they desire to. china is the biggest thief of military and trade secrets in the world. Just a question of how well they implement them after that, plus, their R&D can start from the level of their theft and improve from there instead of starting from ground zero.

It is going to become increasingly hard for the US manufacturers to compete in the world market, even in the US market. US buyers have long shown a tendency to value low cost over quality. Hard to guess where we are going to end up. Unless the US buyer comes to value quality or the US starts using reciprocal tariffs as some countries do, hard to see US manufacturers surviving. We have a partially service based economy including medical, quite a few sucking on the government teat one way or another, many of the rest are pencil pushers of one sort or another.

How can the US economy survive when we basically produce nothing? Damned if I know.

Hu