APA Members! What is your rating, and do you feel like it is accurate?

The APA system is very flawed imo. I have played in the APA on and off for over 15+years. When I called in and asked why I was locked as a 7 after losing 10 out of 10 matches against all skill levels I was told they saw a match I played 6 years prior that was total of 6 games and I won the match with a total of 4 innings and that will keep me a 7. I had played in 4 seasons about 2 years in between those matches but I was told it didnt matter.

Also at triannuals I was in a finals match playing another 7 and took a shot which was a good hit and the other teams coach jumped up and said I fouled. The ref came over and asked what happened, I explained the shot he asked the other coach and ended up giving the guy ball in hand. I was on the hill and ended up losing the match. After the match I went and spoke to the district owner and found out the ref was his brother and said he was wrong and I should have gotten ball in hand since the other team did not have a time out left but he still gave them the win and trip to vegas. Since then I am set on APA being crooked and only play if a friend needs me on the team to coach and fill in a few matches.

I don't work for the APA and I don't doubt that their are crap situations in every organization. For me its the only option for league play in town (unless someone starts something new.) So beggers can't be choosers.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by nobcitypool View Post
One of the biggest problems with apa is the score keeping. People simply don't count defensive shots as they should. By apa definition, a defensive shot is not just a safety but any shot where there wasn't an attempt to make the ball. This makes a significant different in the defensive shot count, particularly with lower level players. This impacts the inning count which is a primary factor in determining skill level.

No doubt there is sandbagging but it wouldn't be as prevalent if score keepers would keep accurate count of defensive shots and innings.

RoadHustler said:

BINGO!
This is the main reason I think its so silly to keep the details of the handicap system secret. If people understood how important accurate score keeping was they wouldn't slack on it and SL's would be more accurate.

How can our league opporators do their job correctly if the data they receive sucks.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

What makes you think people don't understand? I think they understand perfectly. The mistake is that they operate under the illusion that marking 100 extra safes, or not marking 100 safes can have some immediate effect on a skill level. We had a 5 beat the other teams 6 in cities one year, the other teams score keeper adjusted the score sheet to reflect more safes than innings and then demanded that our guys skill level be changed and we be DQ'd. Our player won 4 games in 23 innings (in the game he'd won) 38 innings over all for the match, they had recorded 42 safe shots for him. They understand, they just, for the most part, don't care.

Is it unusual that almost everyone in my local APA league (16 teams 8 ball, around the same 9 Ball) gets along and likes eachother most of the time?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Not in APA currently but I am a Sl7 in 8 and SL9 in 9
Both are accurate.. Might be better in 8ball right now than
in past 3 years ago when I was in APA.

The tops of each game is tough to get exactly right because of the No Ceiling. I have been drilled and have done the drilling ( 1-2 inning matches in both games).
Break can get you in 9ball pretty easy

I'm a 9 and I think for my area it's accurate. I came in as a 7 was and 8 with in 4 matches and a 9 a few weeks into my second session. I still have a high 70% win percentage. I'm not a huge fan of apa but I would like to goto vegas one time to see how I compare to the other players nationally.

Just winning doesn't move you up as I explained it to a guy who was an 8 in our area and mad he wasn't a 9 yet. while complaining I looked down to see how he did that night. He won against a 6 but the 6 was within 5 balls of winning the match also. I pointed out to him the handy cap was right. You both had a chance to win the match with the final rack on the table...the handy cap did it's job. I think innings and safes are a big factor. If you don't mark a safe it looks like a miss instead of a skilled shot and in my area people don't mark safes very well.. I

SPDR9 said:

The APA system is very flawed imo. I have played in the APA on and off for over 15+years. When I called in and asked why I was locked as a 7 after losing 10 out of 10 matches against all skill levels I was told they saw a match I played 6 years prior that was total of 6 games and I won the match with a total of 4 innings and that will keep me a 7. I had played in 4 seasons about 2 years in between those matches but I was told it didnt matter.

Also at triannuals I was in a finals match playing another 7 and took a shot which was a good hit and the other teams coach jumped up and said I fouled. The ref came over and asked what happened, I explained the shot he asked the other coach and ended up giving the guy ball in hand. I was on the hill and ended up losing the match. After the match I went and spoke to the district owner and found out the ref was his brother and said he was wrong and I should have gotten ball in hand since the other team did not have a time out left but he still gave them the win and trip to vegas. Since then I am set on APA being crooked and only play if a friend needs me on the team to coach and fill in a few matches.

Click to expand...

Here's where you messed up. You didn't know the rules. He (the other teams coach) needed to have the shot watched by a referee or a third party. If they don't have a close shot watched, the call always goes to the shooter. You gave up too easy. Its in the team manual. Weather the opponent had a time out or not is completely irrelevant.

Also, as I have said before, since you are a 7, you are expected to win in 1 to 2 innings. If you win the match, and take.....say 4 innings, minus any defensive shots you had, an "applied" score is entered in the computer. If you have a 90 percent win percentage, an applied score of 1.1 is entered. If you have an 80 percent w/L percentage, an applied score of 1.2 innings is entered, an so on. This is how some of the sandbagging is eliminated.

Its less about your current performance then it is about you known ability. If you achieved a status of a 7, you can go back to a 6, but you will never go lower then that, no matter how bad you play.

Wins and losses play very little in the rating calculation. For apa it is more about innings. Balls made misses safeties and even time outs count.
The major weakness in all of these league rating systems is intangible. The computer cannot tell between an actual miss and an intentional miss.

Someone can make a safety look like a miss. You can go 0 and 10 and not go down. I have seen players lose and go up then the players wins the next match and go down.
Have fun enjoy your time with your friends and family. Dont get caught up with all the crap.

Banks said:

For the most part, it's fairly accurate. Some people's games just fluctuate more, plus the variance between a low or high rating(3.1 vs 3.9, for example). I'm a 7/9 and from what I've seen, even the people claiming to sandbag usually can't play much better than what they're rated. Give a "4" that should be a 5 an open table and my money is on them messing it up more often than not. I just play my game and tell my friends to do the same.

Click to expand...

This is how I feel....I'm a 7/9 as well and have the same observations. I haven't really seen sandbagging as an issue and for the most part, I don't think there's that big of a variance in skill level from league to league. When I've gone to Vegas in August, I see the occasional person complaining about their opponent's skill level, including someone from my league who just happened to be playing really well that match. I think that when everyone is mixed in from different leagues, they're watching for it so it gets kind of amplified when they see a 5 break and run and want to throw a fit over sandbagging.

7 - 8 ball
8 - 9 ball

Pretty accurate in Iowa, possibly one level higher than what I would be in some of the other more competitive states. I do have probably one of the highest win %s for 8 ball APA in our state over 200 matches as a 7 (81% mini brag ), BUT our state is weak in pool (Beat)

buckshotshoey said:

Here's where you messed up. You didn't know the rules. He (the other teams coach) needed to have the shot watched by a referee or a third party. If they don't have a close shot watched, the call always goes to the shooter. You gave up too easy. Its in the team manual. Weather the opponent had a time out or not is completely irrelevant.

Click to expand...

Oh i did know the rules which is why I went to the director. The shot wasn't a close shot at all it was a safety and the coach tried saying I didn't hit a rail. He didnt care he said even tho his ref made a bad call he had to stand by the ruling of the ref. When its all said and done APA in our area has (or had last I was playing) a few teams they prefer to send to Vegas and if it can be arranged thats who goes.

My major problem with the hdcp system it is not equal nationwide. A SL5 in a large pool market might be a 7 or 8 in a small market. I have seen SL 7s from large markets as good as any of the 9s in this area other than a very few who are truly top players. So most local hdcps are reasonable, compairing 1 area to another, they are a joke.

mcsock said:

My major problem with the hdcp system it is not equal nationwide. A SL5 in a large pool market might be a 7 or 8 in a small market. I have seen SL 7s from large markets as good as any of the 9s in this area other than a very few who are truly top players. So most local hdcps are reasonable, compairing 1 area to another, they are a joke.

Click to expand...

i don't know if i would go as far as saying its a joke . based on my only experience at the national level last year i tend to agree with you about the wide disparity of playing level from one region to another.

in vegas last year here is the level of competition i faced. i am a decent 5 in my area.....meaning there are 5's here that give me fits.

my 1st match i faced a 5..i won 38-4

my 2nd match ....vs another 5 i won 38-10

3rd match i faced a 7. lost 56- 37 . i lost by 1 point after being down 18-0 before i ever got to the table.

4th match ....i faced a 3. lost 25-19. that dude did not miss nothing ! when he did i was always hooked.

SwissChris said:

I'm a 6 and I think I would be a 5 in my league. .....
I see 5's run 2 or 3 racks and don't go up
I'm a 6 and can't go down and the league owner will not change it or make it fair imo

Click to expand...

I hear ya...league operators tend lock people in. I'm locked as a 6 in APA and was told i'm lucky i'm not a 7.. They lock you in and use applied scoring so no matter how bad you shoot, as a 6 the worst you can score is a 6.1 making it impossible to go down for "x" amount of matches. Higher handicaps = new players = more $$$

Realistic SL's are in TAP league.

SwissChris said:

I'm a 6 and I think I would be a 5 in my league. .....
I see 5's run 2 or 3 racks and don't go up
I'm a 6 and can't go down and the league owner will not change it or make it fair imo

Click to expand...

5's in your league run 2 or 3 racks????????

Hot damn who's an 8 or 9 in that league? Shane Van Boening??

I'm a 6 in 8 and a 7 in 9 ball in my league.

I'm pretty sure it's accurate. I'm not that good. Hopefully when I get my head out of my ass I'll outgrow the 6/7 range and the league in general.

Gonna be hard to play as a 7/9, especially if I stay on my team right now.


But a 5 running 2 or 3 racks?????? Hell the most I've EVER done was 3 in a row in 9 ball on a GC2. On a Valley I usually can do 2 in a row fairly often if I'm using a magic rack.

SPDR9 said:

Oh i did know the rules which is why I went to the director. The shot wasn't a close shot at all it was a safety and the coach tried saying I didn't hit a rail. He didnt care he said even tho his ref made a bad call he had to stand by the ruling of the ref. When its all said and done APA in our area has (or had last I was playing) a few teams they prefer to send to Vegas and if it can be arranged thats who goes.

Click to expand...

It also says a referee can not make a ruling on a hit unless asked to watch it. Even if they happenend to be looming at the time, they cannot make a ruling unless they were specificaly asked to watch it. If you were 100 percent sure it was a good hit, you should have stood your ground. If no one is asked to watch, the call always goes to the shooter. You got screwed. I would have had my captain file an official protest. It may not have done any good for the match you lost, but might have made a difference in later tournaments. Maybe that referee would never be asked to do it again.

Well right now - I think I'm sitting at a 4, was a 5 but got bumped down because the director said he wanted to wait and see how I played the rest of the league (which ends in two weeks). The first few weeks of me entering the league I was losing because of my nerves but this is no longer the case.

Overall I'd probably put my SL at around a 6 in 8-ball which is the only game we play in league. 9-ball I play on my own when practicing because it teaches you to run-out and play position and I'd probably put that at around the 5-6 range as well.

Recently I adopted Asia Cycak's saying: "Play the table - not the opponent."

5s shouldn't being running racks.....5 is a avg league player...6 should run if wide open,7 should break and run here and there..8 should be able to string in a few racks..9 should be able to run almost every open table.... I heard of 3s running racks at vegas....they should be banned for sandbagging...the comp uses your innings more then your wins from what I was told...

marco21222 said:

5s shouldn't being running racks.....5 is a avg league player...6 should run if wide open,7 should break and run here and there..8 should be able to string in a few racks..9 should be able to run almost every open table.... I heard of 3s running racks at vegas....they should be banned for sandbagging...the comp uses your innings more then your wins from what I was told...

Click to expand...

I think anyone can run a rack at any time, every now and then the gods look down on a player and smile, even an s/l 1 or 2. I played with a 1 that generally never made more than one ball in a row. In one match he broke and made 4 balls then just fired at the object and something went in. During the course of this the 9 made it's right to the mouth of a pocket. When it was time, he slammed it in, didn't scratch and had a break and run. So it can happen, I've seen it. Sometimes it just happens, sometimes people just play good or bad, sometimes it takes an LO a week or more to input scores, and sometimes players just sort of fall through the cracks. When you win a match you only get creadit for your applied innings minus any defensive shots, when you loose you get credit for your actual innings played. In places where the competition is plentiful and the player play at a high level higher skill levels are harder to come by. The better the competition, and the matches you play, the more accurate the skill level

I am a decent "B" player and I am rated a 7 in APA 8ball (never played APA 9ball)
This is why I had to quit the APA, how can I honestly compete against the likes of Brian Parks, etc......................... when 7 is the top level and there is no going down.