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11-05-2014, 05:27 AM

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Originally Posted by pocket View Post
To clarify, the proper term is negligence.
I'll give you that smarty pants.


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For you - 11-05-2014, 06:13 AM

A small gift was sent for you and your wife. Keep your head up and God Bless.


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11-05-2014, 06:59 AM

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Originally Posted by pocket View Post
To clarify, the proper term is negligence.
In my mind unless the gun malfunctions during normal use, or goes off as a result of being dropped or something there is no such thing as an accidental discharge.
Pretty much every discharge is a negligent discharge. Even when it happens like in re-holstering. After you may be able to show how it happened something like clothing comes in contact with the trigger and so on. Just being able to explain what happened does not remove it from carelessness.

Now when it comes to a court room or judge is carelessness or even stupidity a criminal act? Probably not. If his wife was suing him for her injuries this would be in a civil court. In a civil court you could be held responsible and the punishment would not be jail and there would not be any kind or criminal record.
Unless they can show he tried to kill his wife, I would not care if he stupidly shot the gun at the wall and hit her instead, if I am on the jury I would find him innocent but maybe guilty of lesser charges he would undoubtedly be charged with depending.

I haven't looked it up but I am sure there is a ton of legal precedent in these kinds of cases, they are not uncommon. If they are going forward to trial with this, there has to be a lot more then we know. It will be interesting to follow it and learn the actual details. I am not sure if it has been said what he is actually being charged with.

A quick visit to youtube and enter negligent discharge (ND) you can see how stupid people with guns can be. Few of these happenings can really rationally be explained away. Someone had their finger on the trigger.
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...harge+%28ND%29


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11-05-2014, 07:32 AM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
I've been following this situation with shock and horror. I don't know anything other than what is already out there. Based on what I have heard though it seems like a colossal waste of govt resources and someone with an axe to grind for some political reason.

Smoke and Carmen are good people who are and are very much in love and this whole saga is heartbreaking.

Don't take the deal Smoke. Unless there is something going on behind the scenes that isn't public. Don't take it. Macguy is right on the money about fighting this. You won't ever get this off your record if you plead. Better off to fight and lose IMO than plea, even if you end up serving more time. It will severely limit your job options in the future. Even trying to get a real estate license might be tough, let alone a top secret clearance. You are a fighter. Now fight.

Hopefully justice will prevail in the end and you'll be able to put it behind you.
DA's care about conviction rates not what's right or wrong. Put something like "gun accident" behind it and it becomes an even bigger win. These kinds of people make child molesters look like the Easter bunny.

Just a horrible system and an even worse method of motivation.

OP should hit up any local gun shops, ranges or hobbyist groups in his area. A lot of these groups or clubs have resources or actual members that could help on the ground level.

Are there not any activist groups who specifically deal in protecting people like the OP? Watchdog group or something?
  
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11-05-2014, 07:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
DA's care about conviction rates not what's right or wrong. Put something like "gun accident" behind it and it becomes an even bigger win. These kinds of people make child molesters look like the Easter bunny.

Just a horrible system and an even worse method of motivation.

OP should hit up any local gun shops, ranges or hobbyist groups in his area. A lot of these groups or clubs have resources or actual members that could help on the ground level.

Are there not any activist groups who specifically deal in protecting people like the OP? Watchdog group or something?
You are right they do care about conviction rates. If they are going forward with this there has to more to it then we know. I have never been there but Cheyenne wy doesn't strike me as an anti gun place with a DA on a crusade.


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11-05-2014, 01:09 PM

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Originally Posted by macguy View Post
You are right they do care about conviction rates. If they are going forward with this there has to more to it then we know. I have never been there but Cheyenne wy doesn't strike me as an anti gun place with a DA on a crusade.
I was born and raised in Cheyenne. Wyoming politics are brutal, this Asst. DA is a crusader. The DA's office there has been under fire for several years. The charge facing Smoke is a misdemeanor and did not warrant all he has been put through.

Wyoming has become home to the leftist crowd from Hollywierd.................


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11-05-2014, 01:28 PM

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Originally Posted by avmaster View Post
I was born and raised in Cheyenne. Wyoming politics are brutal, this Asst. DA is a crusader. The DA's office there has been under fire for several years. The charge facing Smoke is a misdemeanor and did not warrant all he has been put through.

Wyoming has become home to the leftist crowd from Hollywierd.................
I have been thinking that. He may be charged with like gun charge or something and not like an attempted murder. If that is the case then maybe do a plea with reduced charges, no jail and no felony on your record if it even is a felony charge. This might be much ado about nothing. He said he only needs about ten grand for legal. That is pretty cheap, like getting out of a traffic beef.


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11-05-2014, 02:12 PM

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Originally Posted by macguy View Post
I have been thinking that. He may be charged with like gun charge or something and not like an attempted murder. If that is the case then maybe do a plea with reduced charges, no jail and no felony on your record if it even is a felony charge. This might be much ado about nothing. He said he only needs about ten grand for legal. That is pretty cheap, like getting out of a traffic beef.
It's not even a felony. But they slap a 'domestic' tag on it and then the 'victim' doesn't have any say in the proceedings as most states have passed laws that the victim in a domestic violence case CAN'T drop charges and that the state can prosecute on their behalf - even against their wishes. Based on this case it sounds like Wyoming is one of those states although I haven't researched it.

The following is 100% speculation on my part with no input or confirmation from any party who knows anything about the situation.

I think that the bottom line is that Carmen was injured. Badly. And even though it WAS an accident, someone among her friends, family and coworkers felt like someone should be punished so they reported the situation to the DA. And likely exaggerated or biased the circumstances to make sure the DA looked into it. Think about it for a second..."Her husband shot her and she is afraid to report it." Would be all that would be required for the DA to go into full attack mode as she has put her domestic violence agenda front and center.


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11-05-2014, 03:04 PM

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Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
It's not even a felony. But they slap a 'domestic' tag on it and then the 'victim' doesn't have any say in the proceedings as most states have passed laws that the victim in a domestic violence case CAN'T drop charges and that the state can prosecute on their behalf - even against their wishes. Based on this case it sounds like Wyoming is one of those states although I haven't researched it.

The following is 100% speculation on my part with no input or confirmation from any party who knows anything about the situation.

I think that the bottom line is that Carmen was injured. Badly. And even though it WAS an accident, someone among her friends, family and coworkers felt like someone should be punished so they reported the situation to the DA. And likely exaggerated or biased the circumstances to make sure the DA looked into it. Think about it for a second..."Her husband shot her and she is afraid to report it." Would be all that would be required for the DA to go into full attack mode as she has put her domestic violence agenda front and center.

True and true.
There was/is a scorned acquaintance that fed the DA a shit ton of garbage. Thankfully, at least of today, people are taking notice of the reference letters I have submitted. Several Colonels and other officers, along with Sr NCOs and SF operators from across all branches have chipped in and sent letters on behalf.
As of now, the DA is stepping off the heater and back pedalling real fast. We went from a stone wall of her wanting maximum sentencing all the way down to Probo only, but with the stipulation that I attend DV treatment. I rejceted it flat. My character couldn't stand admitting that I abuse my wife. I will spend a year under the jail and save my integrity before I take something like that.


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11-05-2014, 03:15 PM

Thanks to those that have donated, shared and offered advice so far.

Much love!


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11-05-2014, 03:27 PM

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Originally Posted by smokeandapancak View Post
True and true.
There was/is a scorned acquaintance that fed the DA a shit ton of garbage. Thankfully, at least of today, people are taking notice of the reference letters I have submitted. Several Colonels and other officers, along with Sr NCOs and SF operators from across all branches have chipped in and sent letters on behalf.
As of now, the DA is stepping off the heater and back pedalling real fast. We went from a stone wall of her wanting maximum sentencing all the way down to Probo only, but with the stipulation that I attend DV treatment. I rejceted it flat. My character couldn't stand admitting that I abuse my wife. I will spend a year under the jail and save my integrity before I take something like that.
Any one that really matters knows you have integrity. I'm not saying take the deal of probation but at some point you need to preserve your freedom. Weigh the risk vs. reward...is all I'm really saying. The sooner this is over with the sooner you can start to rebuild.

Once probation is agreed upon you can at least begin to seek charges of abuse of justice or any other violation you can throw at this lady.
  
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11-05-2014, 03:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Bishop View Post
Any one that really matters knows you have integrity. I'm not saying take the deal of probation but at some point you need to preserve your freedom. Weigh the risk vs. reward...is all I'm really saying. The sooner this is over with the sooner you can start to rebuild.

Once probation is agreed upon you can at least begin to seek charges of abuse of justice or any other violation you can throw at this lady.
Her offer of probation exceeds the limits set forth in the Wyoming law, as well as she is demanding he plea to domestic Violence which is her claim to fame.... so she looks like the savior and he goes down the tubes...... not a great prospect.

Note: They elected a new DA, this person will be looking for a new job after the 1st of the year so she needs convictions now for the Resume............


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11-05-2014, 03:46 PM

Latest news... She has removed all the DV crap from the offer.

Now it's flat 2years Probo, however I must have a eval done before they lift the no contact order.

I don't have a problem with facing a punishment, I mean the incident did happen and I own up to it. Have since the start. There isn't a person walking this earth that understands the weight of what happened better than I .

As soon as I get a cap on this, I get to pursue civil action against her office. There are a few attorneys interested in taking it on.


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11-05-2014, 04:04 PM

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Originally Posted by smokeandapancak View Post
Latest news... She has removed all the DV crap from the offer.

Now it's flat 2years Probo, however I must have a eval done before they lift the no contact order.

I don't have a problem with facing a punishment, I mean the incident did happen and I own up to it. Have since the start. There isn't a person walking this earth that understands the weight of what happened better than I .

As soon as I get a cap on this, I get to pursue civil action against her office. There are a few attorneys interested in taking it on.
Good news. Talk about back peddling.
  
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11-05-2014, 04:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeandapancak View Post
Latest news... She has removed all the DV crap from the offer.

Now it's flat 2years Probo, however I must have a eval done before they lift the no contact order.

I don't have a problem with facing a punishment, I mean the incident did happen and I own up to it. Have since the start. There isn't a person walking this earth that understands the weight of what happened better than I .
I'd hold off on talking about the part that's missing from your quoted post until EVERYTHING is a done deal. Seriously.


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