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02-20-2019, 04:23 PM

Funny, for someone who claims to be so "in the know" from reading books/talking to good players that you could jump behind the claim that Mosconi was a rabid racist, but you don't know that Rempe WAS considered an all-time great when he was playing?

In fact, the first book to ever make mention of Efren Reyes, "Billiards, and the Search for Higher Truth on the Green Felt", had a nice picture of Rempe, and a decent write up on his accomplishements. I haven't looked at my copy in a while, but I am pretty sure it made little mention of Sigel and Varner, if at all.

Last edited by ShortBusRuss; 02-20-2019 at 04:34 PM.
  
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02-20-2019, 04:33 PM

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Originally Posted by book collector View Post
With the men , it depended on what day it was, as to who would play better.
I watched all of them play many times over the years and
I can remember when every one of them was unbeatable, for a time, when most of the others were playing also.
Archer and Earl came to the party a bit later than the others but had the same effect.
Ruth McGinnis was a fine woman and a very good player , my first post I was thinking of someone else , sorry Ruth.
Jean would have been right there with Allison and Siming although I only have other peoples word to go by on Siming , I only watched her play a little bit.
When Jean was playing it was different , most of the other women were helpless.
Many were C players at best,
I always figured that's why she wanted to play the men.
I'm getting worse in the memory department every day , I think I should pack it in and call it a day.
Problem is, Allison plays no where near Simings speed.
Jason
  
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02-20-2019, 04:38 PM

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Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
Funny, for someone who claims to be so "in the know" from reading books/talking to good players that you could jump behind the claim that Mosconi was a rabid racist, but you don't know that Rempe WAS considered an all-time great when he was playing?

In fact, the first book to ever make mention of Efren Reyes, "Billiards, and the Search for Higher Truth on the Green Felt", had a nice picture of Rempe, and a decent write up on his accomplishements. I haven't looked at my copy in a while, but I am pretty sure it made little mention of Sigel and Varner, if at all.
If I'm writing a book and have access to let's say Justin Bergman, does that mean because I dont write about Shane, Dennis or Chang that means Justin plays better than them?
Jason
  
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02-20-2019, 04:57 PM

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Originally Posted by jasonlaus View Post
If I'm writing a book and have access to let's say Justin Bergman, does that mean because I dont write about Shane, Dennis or Chang that means Justin plays better than them?
Jason
I am not saying Rempe plays better than Sigel or Varner.. I am criticizing the OP for his prior claim of Mosconi being a racist, all the while he seems severely under-informed about many aspects of pool.
  
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02-20-2019, 05:49 PM

Believe me, I know about Sigel! He shot Lefty, like I am, and I always watch the Lefties. I know he was a legendary 9-ball and Straight Pool Champion, and not many people beat him in his prime. However I donít know how good he was at Banks or One-Pocket. I also read that Sigel shot Lefty because his Teacher did, he was actually a Righty! I actually enjoyed seeing Sigel play as much as anybody, because he was so accurate. Itís funny that people criticize him for talking to the audience or himself! I thought it was entertaining. How good of a One-Pocket Players was Sigel? Straight Pool is a Great Teacher for other games. I rank him near the Top n 9-ball.
  
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02-20-2019, 06:32 PM

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Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
Keep in mind, Varner in his prime, went to the Philippines and played Efren in his prime and beat em on his home court. Never heard of ANY other player on the planet EVER went to the Phillipines to play him that I know of and beat em.

Varner in his prime was probably thee best all around player of all time. The KY Colonel had ZERO rattle, and the tougher the game the tougher he played. He was a good listener and was taught by Hubert Cokes in the 70's then Hal Nix.

Nicky never did drugs and he was never a big drinker....only drug problem he ever had was Cigarettes, and he finally quit that.
Right on, Bill. I still consider Nick Varner to be the most cerebral American pool player of the last 50 years, and yes, including Irving Crane. Nick was a killer for sure, and is quite clearly in the conversation for greatest all-around player ever.

FYI, you should hear Varner talk about Lassiter. He does so with awe and reverence.
  
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02-20-2019, 07:36 PM

I never used the words “rabid racist “ to refer to Mosconi! Pool, and America was and is racist, that’s America’s track record. I don’t need anybody to tell me Varner and Rempe’s Titles, or that they were great All-Around Players, I read up on ALL the Champions. Even Parica is underrated, was overlooked for the HOF, and beat nearly everyone, including Effren. Rempe and Varner don’t get the credit that they deserve, which is why I asked why.
  
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02-20-2019, 07:53 PM

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Originally Posted by LeftyIke View Post
I donít need anybody to tell me Varner and Rempeís Titles, or that they were great All-Around Players, I read up on ALL the Champions.
Then the point of this thread is...

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02-20-2019, 08:35 PM

I was asking for insight, from those that know and understand the Pool business, in depth, because just knowing what Titles someone won, doesn’t give you the complete understanding of why some Stars remain in relative obscurity. That even happens to Hall-of-Farmers! Obviously, the ones mentioned are HOF members, except some pure Road Warriors that didn’t play in, and/or didn’t care about playing for Trophies. Fats mentioned that he didn’t care about Tournaments, and Bugs didn’t either, among others. It’s a fact that as accomplished as Varner and Rempe were and are, they aren’t talked about as often, or as glowingly, as Hall, Strickland, and Sigel, but played a wider variety of games. Parica himself, said that he doesn’t know why Efren is more revered than himself. Rempe sure doesn’t mind telling anybody how great he was. Parica was overlooked for the Hall-of-Fame for years, and everyone knows that some less-deserving players made it, while he waited, and waited, before his induction. If I read up on every Champion in the Record books, from Ponzi, and Taberski, to Hohmann, its hard to believe that I wouldn’t know what Varner and Rempe won, but that’s not the totality of who they were. Americans, and people around the World have criticized Strickland, not his Greatness, and that’s part of who he is.
  
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02-20-2019, 09:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftyIke View Post
I was asking for insight, from those that know and understand the Pool business, in depth, because just knowing what Titles someone won, doesn’t give you the complete understanding of why some Stars remain in relative obscurity. That even happens to Hall-of-Farmers! Obviously, the ones mentioned are HOF members, except some pure Road Warriors that didn’t play in, and/or didn’t care about playing for Trophies. Fats mentioned that he didn’t care about Tournaments, and Bugs didn’t either, among others. It’s a fact that as accomplished as Varner and Rempe were and are, they aren’t talked about as often, or as glowingly, as Hall, Strickland, and Sigel, but played a wider variety of games. Parica himself, said that he doesn’t know why Efren is more revered than himself. Rempe sure doesn’t mind telling anybody how great he was. Parica was overlooked for the Hall-of-Fame for years, and everyone knows that some less-deserving players made it, while he waited, and waited, before his induction. If I read up on every Champion in the Record books, from Ponzi, and Taberski, to Hohmann, its hard to believe that I wouldn’t know what Varner and Rempe won, but that’s not the totality of who they were. Americans, and people around the World have criticized Strickland, not his Greatness, and that’s part of who he is.
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02-20-2019, 09:37 PM

I don’t care what you say or think Russ. I’m not your child, I don’t value your opinion, and your are I’ll-mannered.
  
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02-20-2019, 09:45 PM

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Originally Posted by LeftyIke View Post
I donít care what you say or think Russ. Iím not your child, I donít value your opinion, and your are Iíll-mannered.
You'll listen to your Daddy Russ and like it!
Jason
  
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02-20-2019, 10:49 PM

1) Nick & Mike

2) Earl & Johny

nippin @ their heels...Jimmy

Buddy would be in the mix if he had any interest in straight pool


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02-21-2019, 03:21 AM

As far as tournament play, Sigel has to be #1. He had a winning record against Varner overall, who was one of his biggest rivals and best friends. Mizerak and Sigel were the dominant 14.1 players of their era, with Nick, Rempe and Hopkins not far behind. Sigel was also the best 9-Ball player in tournaments, along with Earl. Again Nick was nearly as good and nearly as successful, but not quite. Varner's Bank Pool game is celebrated but Sigel played just as good, and as good as Nick was in One Pocket, Sigel also did better in tournament play.

Now when it came to gambling, that's a whole other story. Both Nick and Mike did gamble, but Nick was a monster for the cash. Mike meanwhile had to be a little more careful. Efren schooled Mike in 9-Ball and Rotation at Red's in Houston. But I saw Mike hold his own playing Banks with Tony Fargo, who was one of the top Bankers in the country. Somehow I have the feeling that one day a long, long time ago these two guys matched up for the cash, as pool players are known to do when they first meet. I would bet that Nick came out on top when that happened.

Nick was a winner in pool and in life, so his all around accomplishments put him on top of my list of pool players. Mike was one of the greatest pool players who ever lived and could play all games at the highest level. That much is a certainty. Both were great all around players, two of the best ever. Let's just leave it at that.

I will only add this. It was a golden era in pool when Mike, Nick, Miz, Rempe, Hopkins, Buddy, Earl, Efren and Parica and a host of others were fighting for the money and the titles, and I was fortunate to see all of them play. I could name a couple of dozen other players from that era who were all capable of knocking off any one of the above on a given day as well. Mike, Nick, Buddy and Earl were the big winners overall though. Efren had a long cold spell when he couldn't win a 9-Ball tournament and Parica wasn't always here to play in them, but when he was....look out!

P.S. I didn't say anything about Johnny because he came along in the 90's when some of the other guys were winding down their careers. Of the above players, only Buddy, Earl, Efren and Parica remained active throughout the 90's. Nick continued to play, but had other priorities in business and family life by that time. Sigel retired in the early 90's and Mizerak's game fell off. Earl, Johnny, Buddy, Parica and Efren were the top guns, tournament wise in the 90's and beyond. I will add this; Buddy Hall had the longest and most successful career of all of them, over 30 years on top. He won more pool tournaments than anyone else by a wide margin. I'm guessing he won over 200 tournaments in his career, counting big and small tables. Of all the players mentioned, Buddy was the only one who dominated the bar tables as well as the big tables. He could switch back and forth week to week and day to day if necessary and never miss a beat. He was the most active of all the top players, riding the roads from state to state and chasing pool tournaments wherever they were being played, week after week, and winning, winning, winning! To this day, I doubt if anyone knows the highways east of the Mississippi better than Buddy Hall.


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02-21-2019, 04:51 AM

Of Rempe, Varner, Sigel, Strickland, and Archer

Earl all day

the whole "all around concept" is somewhat overrated imo

ask any of those guys if they played a prime Earl even for cash more than once

he could and did make Miz look like a toddler

Efren, Parica, and Buddy might be a better comparison
  
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