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04-25-2019, 02:29 PM

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Originally Posted by mikemosconi View Post
Well let's look at it this way- ANY continued run from one day to the next has to have a break ball and cue ball in place from the prior day- RIGHT? You don't get to run out all 15 balls and then the next day start with your own break shot of preference- RIGHT- so what is the difference how the rack is left each day- with the last 4 balls on the table or just a break ball and cue ball? Whether you run 400 and stop or 10 and stop neither counts in my opinion because in ALL cases of a continued run over a multiple day period, balls are left on the table overnight. My example was just to point out that the run needs to be done in one continuous session in my own opinion.
Yes agreed. My reply to your post was because you said something like "I can do this in my lifetime if I can do 10 a day". UNLESS you are at TOP tier pro, there is no way in hell you can run 526 even if you ran one and stop each day
  
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Talking 14.1 - 04-25-2019, 05:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Even though you're really emotionally invested in propping up Mosconi's effort, I'm going to have to agree with you on this particular point. NO WAY should a run be counted if it isn't done on the same day or continuous with a maybe a "short" break occassionally.
Why?

So as the stroke of midnight (start of a new day), you must restart you attempt? (This is literally what you said - other than the short "breaks".)

So no breaks including bathroom breaks? (Have to wear Depends??) No Smoke Breaks?? How short a break is short?



Why not let Guinness World Records decide?

I am more for promoting pool and 14.1.

Note: American Corn-hole finals is on sports channels.

John's accomplishments in this effort are notable and AMAZING!!!


Where are the rules on what constitutes a continuous run?


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John Schmidt at BullShooters - 04-25-2019, 07:08 PM

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Originally Posted by robertno1pool View Post
Why?

So as the stroke of midnight (start of a new day), you must restart you attempt? (This is literally what you said - other than the short "breaks".)

So no breaks including bathroom breaks? (Have to wear Depends??) No Smoke Breaks?? How short a break is short?



Why not let Guinness World Records decide?

I am more for promoting pool and 14.1.

Note: American Corn-hole finals is on sports channels.

John's accomplishments in this effort are notable and AMAZING!!!


Where are the rules on what constitutes a continuous run?


"Don't Hate, Appreciate !!"

Ahh, no. I didn't say at the stroke of midnight start a new run. I said, or continuous with short breaks. A big part of a long run is the endurance. The run done while practicing should mimic match conditions as much as possible. High runs in tournaments are done by continuing the run after the win.

Imagine a guy winning the match and saying, don't touch the balls, I'm coming back next week to see if I can jump back in and put up a big number. Ridiculous.

One other obvious point. The record is 526 CONTINOUS balls ran. If anyone wants to argue that going home, getting a good night's sleep and recharging, coming back and restarting the run is "continuous", have at it. If John wants to put a HUGE asterick on his run, sleeping 8 hours in between is the best way to do it.

I'm all for what John is trying to do. But carrying over runs to the next day with a full night of sleep in between, is such an obvious "no-no" to me when trying to set a legitimate or official record in a game called 14.1 CONTINOUS, I actually can't believe anyone would take the other side of this.

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04-26-2019, 06:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Ahh, no. I didn't say at the stroke of midnight start a new run. I said, or continuous with short breaks. A big part of a long run is the endurance. The run done while practicing should mimic match conditions as much as possible. High runs in tournaments are done by continuing the run after the win.

Imagine a guy winning the match and saying, don't touch the balls, I'm coming back next week to see if I can jump back in and put up a big number. Ridiculous.

One other obvious point. The record is 526 CONTINOUS balls ran. If anyone wants to argue that going home, getting a good night's sleep and recharging, coming back and restarting the run is "continuous", have at it. If John wants to put a HUGE asterick on his run, sleeping 8 hours in between is the best way to do it.

I'm all for what John is trying to do. But carrying over runs to the next day with a full night of sleep in between, is such an obvious "no-no" to me when trying to set a legitimate or official record in a game called 14.1 CONTINOUS, I actually can't believe anyone would take the other side of this.

_______
Agree 100% with this- and I am still trying to understand how one guy holing himself up for weeks and months at at time to run 527 balls in ANY WAY does ANYTHING to promote pocket billiards - to me - it is an attempt soley to promote himself. I'll give him credit if he does it- but those on here who say this is good for pool, please tell me how?
  
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04-26-2019, 06:57 AM

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Originally Posted by mikemosconi View Post
Agree 100% with this- and I am still trying to understand how one guy holing himself up for weeks and months at at time to run 527 balls in ANY WAY does ANYTHING to promote pocket billiards - to me - it is an attempt soley to promote himself. I'll give him credit if he does it- but those on here who say this is good for pool, please tell me how?
I've always been a vocal defender on here of Mosconi, even though I never saw the man play, the records and stats speak for themselves.

Even so, I think this was an excellent idea for the game. It got people watching, and excited for the game of 14.1. And maybe we can now finally see the end of people claiming that any top pro can beat the record at will...People have NO idea what goes into these long runs. NO IDEA. This attempt by JS will at least show some of the difficulties. He played phenomenal pool and shot shots that were simply astounding, and yet he failed, if you can call it that. This record has stood all this time for a reason. Personally I got tremendous enjoyment from watching John Schmidts brilliant play.

The reason why he couldn't break the record, was IMO his patterns, which is also the problem with most other pros as far as straight pool is concerned. They simply don't play it enough, and this game takes time. John Schmidt is perhaps one of the best shotmakers that ever lived, he's certainly the best I've seen. Yet he couldn't break through, he had to work too hard and it wore him down. Don't take this as disrespect for his game. He's a truely great player and his pattern play is very good. It just lacks the final polish to break through. The best run by a current player is held by Engert for a VERY good reason. Engert is also a shot maker, but he's also a marvelllous, technical player, who plays 14.1 RIGHT, with protection balls etc and he has the right perfectionist mindset. The tiny difference in maybe taking a slightly less risky shot at key points in the run makes all the difference in this game, especially in long runs like this. The percentages will get you, in the end and it's usually stupid stuff that gets the player. Just letting up that tiny little bit on a routine shot. According to legends this was not in Mosconis nature... This record will not stand forever. No record ever does, but it will take a lot more than people give it credit for to break it.

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04-26-2019, 02:12 PM

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... The best run by a current player is held by Engert ...
Can you tell us anything about that big run, like when, where, table details, spectators, etc.?
  
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04-26-2019, 02:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
... But carrying over runs to the next day with a full night of sleep in between, is such an obvious "no-no" to me when trying to set a legitimate or official record in a game called 14.1 CONTINOUS, I actually can't believe anyone would take the other side of this.
Oh, while it would be weird, it would be OK with me if the balls were never moved between visits (or at least properly marked and re-spotted) and the player never hit a shot anywhere else between visits. Sleeping is OK. Some guys do that in the chair.

The word "continuous" just means that play continues from one rack to the next without pocketing all 15, re-racking, and blasting them open again from the kitchen (as was done prior to the "continuous" version).
  
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04-27-2019, 06:55 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Oh, while it would be weird, it would be OK with me if the balls were never moved between visits (or at least properly marked and re-spotted) and the player never hit a shot anywhere else between visits. Sleeping is OK. Some guys do that in the chair.

The word "continuous" just means that play continues from one rack to the next without pocketing all 15, re-racking, and blasting them open again from the kitchen (as was done prior to the "continuous" version).

I guess I never thought about it before.

But after due reflection, I am against an overnight break. And the only reason I say that is that, once you allow that, a player could stop when confronted with a difficult shot, say he's stopping for the night, and go to his home table and practice the toughie all night. It might be a long straight-in, a cut shot, a combo or carom, maybe a kick shot or bank. So, I believe it's best not to look favorably on overnight breaks regardless of ball position because if you allow one you have to allow all.

I think that in some cases there is also the problem of sloppy replacement of the balls the next day with some guys just using a piece of chalk or worse.

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04-27-2019, 07:58 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Oh, while it would be weird, it would be OK with me if the balls were never moved between visits (or at least properly marked and re-spotted) and the player never hit a shot anywhere else between visits. Sleeping is OK. Some guys do that in the chair.



The word "continuous" just means that play continues from one rack to the next without pocketing all 15, re-racking, and blasting them open again from the kitchen (as was done prior to the "continuous" version).
Not being cute at all, but if you don't mind an overnight sleep break, I say that John just complete one rack a day for 40 days.

The problem is, it woukd be very hard to have the same eyewitnesses observe the run. John is doing the live video option, which of course also wouldn't work.

For an official or legitimate record, you just can't do it. What would stop an unethical person from saying they stopped, then when everyone left, tried to continue and record it on his phone. Then all night if he missed, start again until he gets a good run. Nobody would know that he kept trying many times from where he left off.

The run should be continuous. Period. As I said before, endurance is a huge factor in this type of record. To discount that factor by letting him get a full nights sleep in between racks should be obvious to anyone that it's not breaking a record of someone who did the run continously.



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04-27-2019, 09:38 AM

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Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post
I guess I never thought about it before.

But after due reflection, I am against an overnight break. And the only reason I say that is that, once you allow that, a player could stop when confronted with a difficult shot, say he's stopping for the night, and go to his home table and practice the toughie all night. It might be a long straight-in, a cut shot, a combo or carom, maybe a kick shot or bank. So, I believe it's best not to look favorably on overnight breaks regardless of ball position because if you allow one you have to allow all.

I think that in some cases there is also the problem of sloppy replacement of the balls the next day with some guys just using a piece of chalk or worse.

Lou Figueroa
Yeah, one of my stated provisos was that they not hit a ball between shots in "the run." I'll also add another one -- obtaining any sort of pool education during the break is prohibited. So no reading pool material, watching videos, or discussing pool with anyone.

So, basically, we need to lock the player up in a cell by himself and let him eat and sleep. Then he can come back and continue the run.
  
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04-27-2019, 09:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Not being cute at all, but if you don't mind an overnight sleep break, I say that John just complete one rack a day for 40 days.

The problem is, it woukd be very hard to have the same eyewitnesses observe the run. John is doing the live video option, which of course also wouldn't work.

For an official or legitimate record, you just can't do it. What would stop an unethical person from saying they stopped, then when everyone left, tried to continue and record it on his phone. Then all night if he missed, start again until he gets a good run. Nobody would know that he kept trying many times from where he left off.

The run should be continuous. Period. As I said before, endurance is a huge factor in this type of record. To discount that factor by letting him get a full nights sleep in between racks should be obvious to anyone that it's not breaking a record of someone who did the run continously. _______
One rack a day for 40 days, subject to the provisos I have stated, would be WAY harder than doing it in one swoop.

Surely we could solve the eyewitness thing.

As for endurance, nah. Mosconi said he did his 526 in 2 hours and 10 minutes. Schmidt did his 464 in 2 hours after he had already been playing for 5 hours.

So lets, go. One ball a day for 19 months. Lock him (or her) up overnight. That'll give us a new record with a good margin over Mosconi.
  
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04-27-2019, 10:00 AM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
One rack a day for 40 days, subject to the provisos I have stated, would be WAY harder than doing it in one swoop.

Surely we could solve the eyewitness thing.

As for endurance, nah. Mosconi said he did his 526 in 2 hours and 10 minutes. Schmidt did his 464 in 2 hours after he had already been playing for 5 hours.

So lets, go. One ball a day for 19 months. Lock him (or her) up overnight. That'll give us a new record with a good margin over Mosconi.
Endurance is more than not falling over from exhaustion, it's being able to keep your focus, not miss, and keep getting great position. This isn't rocket science. I guarantee you that no official record of this type would the player be allowed to come back the next day after a good night's sleep and start fresh. It makes literally NO SENSE.

By your own reasoning, it should only take 3 hours or so, so there is no good reason to come back the next day -- unless the person knew that they would have a better chance being refreshed after a good night's sleep.


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04-28-2019, 10:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Get_A_Grip View Post
Endurance is more than not falling over from exhaustion, it's being able to keep your focus, not miss, and keep getting great position. This isn't rocket science. I guarantee you that no official record of this type would the player be allowed to come back the next day after a good night's sleep and start fresh. It makes literally NO SENSE.

By your own reasoning, it should only take 3 hours or so, so there is no good reason to come back the next day -- unless the person knew that they would have a better chance being refreshed after a good night's sleep.
Exactly right. I think a run containing an overnight break shouldn't count as a world record. The great Gene Nagy made a 400+ run with an overnight break, and many at the time questioned its legitimacy.

As you say, the mental stamina is as big as the physical stamina required, and permitting a mental reload, to me, compromises the legitimacy of the run.
  
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04-28-2019, 01:02 PM

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Originally Posted by AtLarge View Post
Yeah, one of my stated provisos was that they not hit a ball between shots in "the run." I'll also add another one -- obtaining any sort of pool education during the break is prohibited. So no reading pool material, watching videos, or discussing pool with anyone.

So, basically, we need to lock the player up in a cell by himself and let him eat and sleep. Then he can come back and continue the run.

Easier to just stipulate no extended breaks.

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04-28-2019, 03:46 PM

Does anyone know for sure regarding some of the record runs of old, if they were all done in one block, or were any of them done in subsequent blocks? I ask this because they used to have challenges that were long races -- say to 1000, but they were not completed in one day's session -- the scores at least carried over from session to session. I have no idea if any of the runs did or not, that is why I am asking.

I do get a chuckle out of all the stipulations being talked about for John Schmidt, when there were basically none for Willie Mosconi. And if there were for Willie, wouldn't we all have started with "it has to be on a regulation pool table"


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