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What's your take on E85? - 10-10-2018, 02:23 PM

Do you think that the price and energy consumption it takes to make and distribute E85 outweighs it's potential benefits?

What about it's performance?
What about it's government subsidy? Land consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, food and livestock effects?
  
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10-10-2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelawareDogs View Post
Do you think that the price and energy consumption it takes to make and distribute E85 outweighs it's potential benefits?

What about it's performance?
What about it's government subsidy? Land consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, food and livestock effects?
I have a commercial weedeater that ethanol has destroyed even while using
the additive to counteract it. As far as the other stuff I couldn't tell you but I would figure
the more ethanol the more problems. Its being given subsidies and the increased use
because of the negatives of the trade war. We're paying for that. You see the Dow
today? Down 800 points. Too much monkeying been going on. I wouldn't surprised to
see us lose the entire years gains.


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10-10-2018, 02:39 PM

I won't be buying an e85 vehicle. Too many other ways to save money for driving. I really think e85 will be gone in the foreseeable future.

As for ethanol in regular gas, smh. Get it out!

Almost posted a new thread when I heard PDT...

Trump moves to allow more ethanol in gas with E15 available year-round.

Got to disagree whole heartedly w that idea.

I got a code on my vehicle now that says my catalytic converter isn't working properly, thanks to ethanol as my mechanic says.


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10-10-2018, 02:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DelawareDogs View Post
Do you think that the price and energy consumption it takes to make and distribute E85 outweighs it's potential benefits?

What about it's performance?
What about it's government subsidy? Land consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, food and livestock effects?
It costs more in fossil fuels (gasoline and diesel) to make and distribute the ethanol. Producing it is an energy deficit. It's a simple matter.


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10-10-2018, 02:49 PM

From Investors Business Daily


The devastating report — based on, yes, actual "science" — shows that the forced addition of ethanol to the nation's gasoline is making our air dirtier.

The irony, of course, is that ethanol's entire rationale is that it would make our air cleaner.

Why do we keep doing this? The farm-based ethanol lobby not only wants current standards of up to 10% of our fuel made up of ethanol (the "E10" standard), but would like to see it rise to 15% (E15). And, unfortunately, President Trump seems open to the idea.



EPA Says Ethanol Damages The Environment — Isn't It Time To Kill The Program?

Energy: Amid all the media hoo-ha over President Trump's latest tweets, tariffs and the Russia investigation, you might have missed a significant report — the Environmental Protection Agency says ethanol made from corn and soybeans and added to our gasoline has become an environmental disaster. So why do we continue to make it?

The devastating report — based on, yes, actual "science" — shows that the forced addition of ethanol to the nation's gasoline is making our air dirtier.

The irony, of course, is that ethanol's entire rationale is that it would make our air cleaner.


Why do we keep doing this? The farm-based ethanol lobby not only wants current standards of up to 10% of our fuel made up of ethanol (the "E10" standard), but would like to see it rise to 15% (E15). And, unfortunately, President Trump seems open to the idea.

Get the new IBD Politics & Opinion newsletter!


Is ethanol really that bad? Well, never mind that there's a significant amount of evidence that it's bad for your car, boat or motorcycle engine. That's bad enough.

But the damage isn't just from using the ethanol in our fuel; it's in the entire process involved in radically altering our agricultural sector from growing food to growing an energy supplement.

The increase in ethanol has been significant. In 2008, the U.S. produced roughly 10 billion gallons of ethanol; by 2016, that amount had grown to 16.6 billion barrels, a 67% rise.

One of the most unexpected developments of the ethanol experiment is the loss of millions of acres of natural habitat to grow corn and soybeans, not for the dinner table but for the gas-station pump.

Do we really want to use millions of acres of land for no reason other than to satisfy the farm lobby?

Equally bad is the use of agricultural nutrients and chemicals to grow the crops. Much of those fertilizers end up in runoff that ends up in our rivers and lakes, causing algae blooms and other negative effects. You pay to clean that up — not those making billions from these crops.

Again, that's not a side-effect that politicians or the Environmental Protection Agency discussed when they first foisted the ethanol-content rules on us.

But by far the worst is the unexpected finding that making ethanol and using it produces nitrous oxides in the atmosphere. Once there, nitrous oxides plus oxygen plus sunlight becomes ozone — a major pollutant.

As it turns out, this is not "green energy" at all, as its proponents say. It's "brown energy." The only green is the money that lines the farm lobbyists' pockets.

As American Enterprise Institute fellow and economist Mark J. Perry noted in IBD all the way back in 2015, "countless independent studies have shown that corn ethanol is far worse from a greenhouse-gas emissions perspective than traditional fuels."

Private researchers and economists have known this for a long time. What's new is that the EPA is recognizing it for the first time.

What's truly disturbing is that this EPA report was delayed by four years, thanks to political maneuvering during the Obama era. By law, the EPA is supposed to produce a report every three years on biofuels. It didn't.

It's not hard to see why. Ethanol is politically popular. For that reason, it's a tough program to kill.

But there are clear and convincing reasons for doing just that.

As a Yale report last year summarized: "Higher-ethanol blends will produce significant levels of air pollution, reduce fuel efficiency, jack up corn and other food prices, and have been treated with skepticism by some car manufacturers for the damage they do to engines. Growing corn to run our cars was a bad idea 10 years ago. Increasing our reliance on corn ethanol in the coming decades is doubling down on a poor bet."

By the way, one of the main rationales for ethanol — often used to convince free-market conservatives — was that we needed it for "energy security."

Proponents said it was better to produce energy on U.S. soil than to buy it from questionable Middle East suppliers.

That argument is now largely moot. With the fracking revolution and the continued gains in car fuel-efficiency, that argument no longer holds water. Thanks to amazing new technologies, we're basically self-sufficient in energy today.

The Politics Of Ethanol
Even so, many cornbelt politicians, including a significant number of Republicans, support the so-called E-10 standard, part of the U.S.' Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) program.

First put in place in 2005 then expanded in 2007, it's now apparent RFS has become an environmentally damaging and costly white elephant, serving as a lightly disguised subsidy program for corn and soybean farmers.

Yet, as we mentioned above, President Trump is considering not only keeping the program, but mandating a 15% standard — E15. A costly waste.

This might get Midwestern votes, but it's bad policy. President Trump has done a bang-up job draining the Washington swamp. He should now turn his attention to draining the ethanol swamp, too.


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10-10-2018, 02:55 PM

My car runs just as well in the summer as it does in the winter. Does that tell you something?

Of course, maybe I'm being mean. Yeah, RJ's pulse rate just went up. Yeah, I'm really mean for reporting my car's equal season performance.

No doubt some will want to tell me I'm evil. I sure expect it, from this gang of some girly men, and overactive zombies,. Flame on.

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10-10-2018, 03:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildWing View Post
My car runs just as well in the summer as it does in the winter. Does that tell you something?

Of course, maybe I'm being mean. Yeah, RJ's pulse rate just went up. Yeah, I'm really mean for reporting my car's equal season performance.

No doubt some will want to tell me I'm evil. I sure expect it, from this gang of some girly men, and overactive zombies,. Flame on.

All the best,
WW
So does mine. I drive a full size sedan and get about 27 mpg year round.

The ethanol thing could be to counter the negative monetary effect of tariffs on farmers.


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10-10-2018, 03:10 PM

Give me no ethonal fuel every day.

You get a 20% bump in mpg depending on the vehicle.

As far as ethanol itself goes. Hemp is going to be a much better producer. Its bio mass outstrips both corn and soy and uses less water.


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10-10-2018, 03:15 PM

doo gooders - we demand corn in your gas -
gas guys - we need subsidies for the change -
doo gooders - you got it big boy -
gas guys - you know this is not to bright -
doo gooders - it is for the children -



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10-10-2018, 03:23 PM

"What's your take on E85?"


Makes for a decent alternative octane booster in the correct mix.

Bigger injectors and a retune needed. Kills mpg, but who cares if you're seeking hp gains.


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E85 - 10-10-2018, 04:55 PM

People are dying of starvation. Question whether the plants (corn, sugar cane - as examples) might help more as food sources.

Killing miles per gallon becomes an exercise in math what the break even point is in purchase price between E85 and regular gasoline. However, much of the cost for E85 is subsidized by my taxes (and yours) paying to help plant growers compete on an uneven playing field.

When you look at present state, I do not believe ethanol is going to replace coal, oil or natural gas any time soon.

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10-10-2018, 05:22 PM

It's a 'fad fuel'.....now that the obama-era fuel crunch is over, its getting harder & harder to find....but the race guys love it, its 100+ octane if you build an engine suited for it, you can produce some good HP!


If you tolerate this, then your children will be next.


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10-10-2018, 05:25 PM

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Originally Posted by DelawareDogs View Post
Do you think that the price and energy consumption it takes to make and distribute E85 outweighs it's potential benefits?

What about it's performance?
What about it's government subsidy? Land consumption, greenhouse gas emissions, food and livestock effects?
Why would you ask people who have NO IDEA what they're talking about to comment on a topic like this?
You might as well ask them to explain black holes.
Other than sofie, the libs here can barely write a complete sentence. Don't ask them questions- unless looking for brainless drivel for your answer.


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10-10-2018, 08:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
Why would you ask people who have NO IDEA what they're talking about to comment on a topic like this?
You might as well ask them to explain black holes.
Other than sofie, the libs here can barely write a complete sentence. Don't ask them questions- unless looking for brainless drivel for your answer.
Actually I've gotten great responses. You should check them out without politicizing it and name dropping all the people you want to be mean to.

Speaking of drivel, it's a fuel question, care to chime in?
  
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10-10-2018, 08:15 PM

Useless when you can build nuclear for zero emissions and charge your car or go hydrogen fuel cell.
  
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