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Making razor cuts in cue tip and ferrule for max adhesion?
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skogstokig
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Making razor cuts in cue tip and ferrule for max adhesion? - 05-19-2019, 11:24 PM

Two friends of mine told me they do this. after removal of old tip they remove residue, use gritty sandpaper and then they make a few criss cross cuts on the surfaces with a razor or utility knife for the loctite to have more adhesion.

This sounds crude to me, and sub-optimal for ferrule life. what do you think? how do you maximize adhesion? and what glue do you use?
  
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robleyf7
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05-19-2019, 11:36 PM

I scuff the surface with 220 grit or lower. And make 3 light scratches with razor. And I use loctite super glue gel
  
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skogstokig
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05-20-2019, 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by robleyf7 View Post
I scuff the surface with 220 grit or lower. And make 3 light scratches with razor. And I use loctite super glue gel
ok. do you cut the ferrule surface with razor as well?
  
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05-20-2019, 02:47 AM

Royce said that the secret to the tips staying on with super glue was that both surfaces needed to be perfectly flat and smooth. I used to use quite a course paper for the bottom of the tip. Ever since going to 400 paper for the tip, they don't fail. With fresh glue of course. It seems that the fresher the glue, the better the bond as well.


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Sorry, not taking any cue orders until further notice.
  
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Dave38
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05-20-2019, 09:24 AM

If you read the instructions for super glue...just about any type, it says to be used on CLEAN, smooth surfaces. Putting razor marks, or grooves etc makes the surface rough, not smooth. Face the ferrule normally, then Sand the back of tip smooth and flat, on a flat board, then check the tip on the ferrule....ANY rocking motion means you have to do one or both again...do it until the tip sits flat with no movement. Then Pre-prime the tip with a thin super glue, then once dry, lightly re-sand flat and recheck the fit on the ferrule. (pre-priming seals the tip so it doesn't soak up all the glue and create a bad bond). Then install the tip using a glue that is made for your ferrule material. The main issue is that the ferrule material used a lot nowadays is high temp plastics and regular Loctite or other CA's may not grab properly. Use Loctite on the normal ferrules like juma, ageis, phenolic, pvc, titan, etc. Use 3M CA40H on the high temp materials. It's not cheap, but it is designed for these types of hard to glue plastics. Roughing/slicing/grooving is just a poor workaround for not using the proper glue for the job, IMO.
Hope this helps,
Dave
  
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05-20-2019, 09:44 AM

I face the shaft and sand the tip on 220 grit on a gauge block.

It seems to me if you cut , score, or sand the surfaces to rough them up you are asking for failure.


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05-20-2019, 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave38 View Post
If you read the instructions for super glue...just about any type, it says to be used on CLEAN, smooth surfaces. Putting razor marks, or grooves etc makes the surface rough, not smooth. Face the ferrule normally, then Sand the back of tip smooth and flat, on a flat board, then check the tip on the ferrule....ANY rocking motion means you have to do one or both again...do it until the tip sits flat with no movement. Then Pre-prime the tip with a thin super glue, then once dry, lightly re-sand flat and recheck the fit on the ferrule. (pre-priming seals the tip so it doesn't soak up all the glue and create a bad bond). Then install the tip using a glue that is made for your ferrule material. The main issue is that the ferrule material used a lot nowadays is high temp plastics and regular Loctite or other CA's may not grab properly. Use Loctite on the normal ferrules like juma, ageis, phenolic, pvc, titan, etc. Use 3M CA40H on the high temp materials. It's not cheap, but it is designed for these types of hard to glue plastics. Roughing/slicing/grooving is just a poor workaround for not using the proper glue for the job, IMO.
Hope this helps,
Dave
what glue do you recommend for isoplast?
  
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05-20-2019, 11:21 AM

I do that too, but be sure to be extremely careful and only do very shallow and light "scratch cuts", not real deep cuts.

I do believe in physics and the laws of maximizing surface adhesion.
  
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05-20-2019, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.G. View Post
I do that too, but be sure to be extremely careful and only do very shallow and light "scratch cuts", not real deep cuts.

I do believe in physics and the laws of maximizing surface adhesion.
i don't disagree that it makes sense, but doesn't it shorten the lifespan of the ferrule?

i figured that since my friends are a bit older than me that this razor grooving habit was an old school thing from an era when glues were not as good.
  
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whammo57
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05-20-2019, 01:09 PM

I never do razor cuts and my tips don't fall off...... except Players Cues..... face the ferrule and scrape across it with a razor to be sure it's flat.......... wipe it clean......... sand the tip and put some very thin CA on it....let it soak in a few seconds.... dab the excess off and hit it with kicker.... lightly re sand.... wipe clean........ put it on with gel control CA.............. no problems

Kim


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Southern Cue Systems

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05-20-2019, 01:55 PM

With the right prep and gel CA, I don't think it matters.
Make sure the bottom of the tip is pre-soaked as mentioned ( thanks to Dennis Searing for this tip ).
If the face of the ferrule has wood tenon, pre-coat that too.
Accelerator does not hurt.


Make it a habit to get rid of the first drop of your bottle everyday when using it.


  
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05-20-2019, 09:58 PM

I think the theory behind this is to give added shear strength, which super glues lack. When most tips pop off, it's do to shear (side) force when not hitting center ball. I've never seen a tip come off from a good center ball break. Always with lots of english or a miscue.
The flaw in the razor scoring is that material disperses. Cut a score with a blade, and the material around the score will rise up. Unless you get rid of the high spots, your tip doesn't have a flat surface to adhere to anymore. So, if you want scores, which isn't a terrible idea, make sure you reface the surface to eliminate the high spots caused by the scoring.
  
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05-21-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skogstokig View Post
what glue do you recommend for isoplast?
regular Loctite ultra gel works, or if you are concerned, CA40h will do, but it is expensive....$40 for a 1 ounce bottle. I am now using it on most capped ferrules, unless it is phenolic, so I can get the most use out of the bottle before it goes bad. Keeping it cool/cold does help extend the shelf life, but must be brought up to room temp before using
Dave
  
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