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jviss
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06-03-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think the practical test of level/flat is to slow-roll the cue ball most of the length of the table to hit an eighth of a ball hanging in a pocket and not be surprised. This is also a severe test of the cue ball. Fast cloth accentuates roll-off.

I have no idea how this lines up with the WPA spec.

Flat is different from level. If the slate isn't flat it's really hard for it to be level.
Thanks, Bob. Another reason for me to get to work in the shop on my billiard Stimpmeter. Good point about the cue ball being part of the test, too! I guess you could make several runs and average out the results.
  
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Texas Carom Club
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06-03-2019, 02:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
On a sway-backed table, such as they have at a room where I play sometimes, you have to go beyond a single happy bubble. (Especially at the "small" carom games.)
The bubble on the machinist level i mean
Not the orange plastc thing lol

My table is near half or better 3/4 to the bubble being in the middle all over and it dont roll off on long slow roll shots or lags


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Last edited by Texas Carom Club; 06-03-2019 at 02:31 PM.
  
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06-03-2019, 02:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviss View Post
...the WPA spec for flatness is .020" lengthwise and .010" across the width.
About 1/100 of a degree - the thickness of 2-3 sheets of paper crosstable. Pretty flat.

pj <- in case you're curious
chgo
  
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06-03-2019, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jviss View Post
level ... flatness

... The two are independent.
Unless you're trying to level an unflat surface.

pj
chgo
  
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06-03-2019, 02:45 PM

If you guys want to see "True Level", Utube Rick and Morty true level. If someone can post it to this thread please. TRUE LEVEL!


"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

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06-03-2019, 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Carom Club View Post
get the bubble close as you can, no need to worry about it too much from there
As I hope you know getting that bubble close depends on the level

Starrett 135A ... should be pretty easy to get bubble close
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/135A

Starrett 130 ... maybe a little tougher
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/130

Starrett 132 ... tougher yet but still reasonable (0.080"/foot when outside the line)
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/132-6

Starrett 98 is the standard pool table mechanic level ... 0.020"/foot when outside the lines
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-6 (this is the little one)

Starrett 199 ... forget this one ... about 0.0015"/foot when outside the line
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/199Z

Dave <-- has a recently re-vialed (an interesting exercise) 98-6 and a 98-12

<edit> I noticed that you specified the level (and hence the precision) in a later post


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Last edited by DaveK; 06-03-2019 at 02:52 PM.
  
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06-03-2019, 02:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbgordie View Post
If you guys want to see "True Level", Utube Rick and Morty true level. If someone can post it to this thread please. TRUE LEVEL!
That's hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-wbWGwZ7_k
  
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Texas Carom Club
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06-03-2019, 02:50 PM

Mine is lile this and even in some spots half the bubble off
A nive 10 inch long level
At .0005 a line, about 8 times smaller than a hair
I dont notice a thing
And i indicate and level parts all day a work




3 cushion has killed carom
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06-03-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Carom Club View Post
Mine is lile this and even in some spots half the bubble off
A nive 10 inch long level
At .0005 a line, about 8 times smaller than a hair
I dont notice a thing
And i indicate and level parts all day a work


a 199 ish level Don't lean on the table

Dave


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jviss
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06-03-2019, 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
As I hope you know getting that bubble close depends on the level

Starrett 135A ... should be pretty easy to get bubble close
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/135A

Starrett 130 ... maybe a little tougher
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/130

Starrett 132 ... tougher yet but still reasonable (0.080"/foot when outside the line)
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/132-6

Starrett 98 is the standard pool table mechanic level ... 0.020"/foot when outside the lines
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/98-6 (this is the little one)

Starrett 199 ... forget this one ... about 0.0015"/foot when outside the line
http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/199Z

Dave
Excellent, thanks. I have several carpenters and tool box levels, too coarse; and a machinist's level that's too sensitive, at 0.0005"/10" - will drive you crazy. I have a Starrett 98 on order. The Starrett 98 series is just right for this job, per the professionals. The documentation says "[t]he 6 through 18 (150-450mm) main level vials have graduations that are approximately 80-90 seconds or .005 per foot (0.42mm per meter)." I don't have mine yet, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say "0.020"/foot when outside the lines." Do you read the leading or trailing edge of the bubble against the graduations? I would think the former.

Thanks very much.

jv
  
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Texas Carom Club
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06-03-2019, 02:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
a 199 ish level Don't lean on the table

Dave
199ish? Dont follow
If you think you cant do work without overpriced starret tools

Well your just mistaken


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06-03-2019, 03:06 PM

I can tell you that you are wasting your time using a regular level when leveling a table, unless you have purchased a very accurate, very expensive level.
Tables need to be leveled so that the angle is less than 0.01 degrees. Some engineer/machinist levels are more accurate than 0.01 degrees, but they are hundreds of dollars.
Most other levels available are only accurate to around 0.3 degrees, and laser levels are only accurate to around 0.03 degrees.
In my opinion, nothing is better than rolling balls on the table.
Balls and gravity don't lie.

Last edited by sbpoolleague; 06-03-2019 at 03:10 PM.
  
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06-03-2019, 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbpoolleague View Post
I can tell you that you are wasting your time using a regular level when leveling a table, unless you have purchased a very accurate, very expensive level.
Tables need to be leveled so that the angle is less than 0.01 degrees. Engineers/Machinists levels are more accurate than 0.01 degrees, but they are hundreds of dollars.
Most other levels available are only accurate to around 0.3 degrees, and laser levels are only accurate to around 0.03 degrees.
In my opinion, nothing is better than rolling balls on the table.
Balls and gravity don't lie.

Mine is machine shop grade amd costs just 90 buvks new from the local tool supply comapny


3 cushion has killed carom
Royal Pro
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-"look how hard this easy game is!"
  
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06-03-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbpoolleague View Post
I can tell you that you are wasting your time using a regular level when leveling a table, unless you have purchased a very accurate, very expensive level.

Tables need to be leveled so that the angle is less than 0.01 degrees. Engineers/Machinists levels are more accurate than 0.01 degrees, but they are hundreds of dollars.

Most other levels available are only accurate to around 0.3 degrees, and laser levels are only accurate to around 0.03 degrees.

In my opinion, nothing is better than rolling balls on the table.

Balls and gravity don't lie.


And rolling them without the felt on is the best indicator. Over and over again. Across the seams in all directions at slow speed. When you cover the table you will no longer get a accurate reading since the felt is less than a perfect surface. So when trying to get a precision reading with the felt on you can forget about it.


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06-03-2019, 03:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Texas Carom Club View Post
Mine is machine shop grade amd costs just 90 buvks new from the local tool supply comapny
I will bet it is not accurate enough. What brand is it?
  
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