Could Schon Butt hit be my answer?

i just got my first schon and couldnt be happier with it, the hit is awesome, im using a mezz wd700 shaft on it, but seems like the 314 is the most popular shaft for it, lots and lots of guys are using schon butts with aftermarket LD shafts.

i would say go for the schon and never look back at that meucci.

Schon is really consistently a great cue. If choosing a production cue Schon is the choice although I've played with some nice older Joss and Falcon cues.

As far as butt vs shaft it comes down to balance point, thick or thin, joint type, tip, etc. All of those things can change how cues feel and play and that becomes your preference.

Haven't found one schon cue that played bad yet since I've started playing this game. I must have been through 50 plus schon cues and currently have an STL 19 available for sales.

As stated I prefered my Meucci Blackdot to the Z2, and am wondering
1) How the Schon with a Schon shaft would compare to a Meucci
The Schon hits much stiffer...I don't know much about a Blackdot shaft, but if it's ANYTHING like older (mid 80s) Meucci, then you'll feel like you're getting a lot less action on the cue ball...you won't BTW, it's just the way you think it is. It will feel different; thousands of great players prefer Schon's hit in the end, so I don't think you're taking a big risk
2) Are the new Schon shafts worse then the old
No. I've tried them all and I don't see any difference...some may, but it's not much. Very high quality shafts IMHO
3) If the Z2 on a Schon would be much different to a Z2 on a Meucci, or on a Predator butt, both of which I did not care much for.
When you change butts you will feel a difference in thickness/taper/balance...it's a matter of preference.
4) If maybe im just a PC (Meucci) and most others are Macs (Schon)
Lots of great players won lots of tourneys/money with Meucci cues back in the day. I never liked them, but I respect their track record. They have a small but loyal following among some old schoolers. I will say that I've NEVER met anyone who've gone Schon who didn't love it.

Please dont tell me how your horrible Meucci Co. stories about receiving bent cues, cracked ferrules, or called and spoke to a robot. I've already read enough about that.

I just want to hear about the differences in Play/feel, and whether It really would be beneficial to buy a 500 dollar and up cue, then put that shaft aside again and buy another for 200 plus.

Also, if someone can finally answer the age old question on whether there are any benefits from points and inlays asides from looks, I would appreciate
Now THAT's a big question. IMHO, cnc points, half splice points, full splice points all have unique qualities/impact on the harmonics (vibration/feel/feedback) of the cue. Many will say no one can tell the difference, but I've had one of everything at some point, and I can assure you there is a difference...comes down to the square inches of glue/face in the forearm. A merry widow has one harmonic based on the wood's density. When you start inlaying stuff into that it dampens that. Then when you start adjust the actual construction (splices) with even more glue surfaces, you get yet another feel/vibration. What's best? They ALL ARE!


Peace,
A newbie

As for the question on inlays and rings… they make no difference on how the cue will play. A plane Jane is plays the same as a unique.

I can’t speak for Meucci so I can’t compare them.

One question I have to ask is that if you are going to get a cue with a low deflection shaft why get a Schon butt?
Sounds like you have never hit with a Schon so you are going on word of mouth.

As always I would suggest you find someone who has a cue and hit with it. That would be your best option.
Assuming that is not a possibility I would suggest you look at getting a cue that comes standard with a low deflection shaft.
I recommend both Mezz and OB. Mezz being my first choice.

If you know you playing style and what you want out of the cue I would also suggest you call AZ Billiards (Seyberts) and talk to them. They should be able to put you in the right direction. Also if you buy a cue from them and don’t like it you can always send it back.

Good luck in you search.

meucci black dot shafts are very easy to bend and are flimzy. they are spliced 35 times and then glued back together giving them much more flexibility. schon shafts on the other hand are 1 solid piece of maple that is turned down. almost night and day if you are just comparing the shaft. meucci also puts the black dot on the spine of the shaft so you get a more consistant hit if you remember to have it pointed up every shot you take.

Goose, i really would not put too much emphasis on the butt of the cue. that is just for looks and will have very little to do with the hit. all the technology is in the shaft.

Yes, the standard Schon shaft is a solid shaft.
However it is not a low deflection (LD) shaft.

Try a Mike Erwin Cue. You'll get more for your money with Mike.:smile:

Goose1972 said:

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Also, if someone can finally answer the age old question on whether there are any benefits from points and inlays asides from looks, I would appreciate



Peace,
A newbie

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Full splice points are a structural matter. They enhance the structure in general.

Inlaid points or short splice points are purely decorative IMHO.

Inlays of any sort are purely decorative.

You didn't ask but...ring work associated with the joint can be a structural enhancement or can be decorative. When that line is crossed is a matter of some opinion. The same can be said of butt cap construction.

There are additional matters having to do with handles, coring, etc and the ring work that can be associated but that gets more complicated with the conversation migrating to "buzz rings" etc and should be addressed by a real cue maker I think.

Shon cues, by the way, are cored cues.

IMHO Shon cues are in fact in general a higher grade and more "advanced" cue than any Meucci. The materials, design, engineering, and construction are more fully evolved.

Please note I am not a Shon fan by any means. I do not own one. I do own one Meucci but it is a Meucci Original so it has little to do with any of the current crop.

All of the above is merely my opinion of course. Feel free to tear it apart. :smile:
.

I played what I consider to be the top of my game up until this point with a Meucci cue with a black dot shaft. Partly due to this forum, and some unrelated customer service issues, I decided that I needed a different cue. Several months and cues later, I'm shooting about as well as I did with the Meucci.

The most important question you may want to ask yourself is: "Self, what is it about my current playing cue that warrants a change?"

Schon makes a fine cue by all accounts, but if the Meucci you shoot with now hasn't turned into a turd and you're shooting well with it, you may be disappointed by changing. The itch to upgrade doesn't go away, not even 10-15 cues later...

Goose1972 said:

Brand new here to AZ, have been reading alot of positive things about Schon.

Currently have a Meucci HOF-3 (I think). bought on E-bay and have been using for several years. I never keep the gimmicky black dot on top as manufacturer suggested, but I instantly felt the meucci with the standard tip or a Moori, hit tons better then my viking or any other house cue I had used up to that point. Not putting down house cues, have had nights of shear greatness with house cues when no one else was around, just to large to carry, and i'm a germaphobe. Went with a Z2 for a year, and recently switched back to the black dot as I prefer the accuracy, feel, and am able to get a decent amount of english with a moori medium on the black dot shaft.

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Goose:

Meucci "can" be good cues, if you get a good model that came from a good batch / good manufacturing run. Remember that Meucci specializes in VOLUME cues -- all of their manufacturing is tailored to "runs" or "batches" of a certain model. However, some bad glue or a lackadaisical worker on a shift has a direct effect on the quality of a particular run.

I have a Meucci 97-11 that developed a warp or bend in the handle/grip area for no apparent reason. I sent it to Ryan Theewen of Muellers (the only Meucci-authorized repair person outside of the Meucci factory themselves), and what he did with it was nothing short of magical. He cut the 97-11 in 3 pieces -- right at the edges of the handle area. Obviously the warped handle area was tossed. He then cored-out the forearm (A-joint) and butt areas, and replaced the handle area with a one-piece section of properly-cured maple (a piece that he had hanging in his shop for years) that extended into both the forearm and butt. He then finished the cue, and with the caveat that I didn't have enough funds at the time for a Tiger stack leather wrap, he wrapped it with double-pressed Irish linen for the time being, and polished the cue. I'll have him replace the linen with a stack leather wrap soon.

Anyway, like I said, what I got back from Ryan was nothing short of a miracle. The cue *hits* better than it ever did -- even better than when I first got it.

The point here is that the quality of a Meucci has everything to do with the care that went into it. Obviously, my original/unmodified 97-11 had some quality issues with the wood in the handle area that Ryan was able to completely address, and then some.

This point also extends into *any* production cue, by the way. By and large, custom cues tend to have a lot more love and care put into them than the production cues. Ryan's personal touch on a production cue proved that to me in spades (I'd already knew this, but it was nice to get reaffirming evidence).

Goose1972 said:

I'm very pleased with my Meucci, but itching to upgrade after going to my first SBE this year, and comming home with a BK2 break cue that cost more then my shooting cue, which I am now convinced the benefits could only be measured with the finest in earthquake detecting machinery.

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I'm probably going to catch holy h*ll for this, but I'm not surprised to hear you say this. IMHO (with the emphasis on "humble"), Predator products by and large are w-a-y overpriced for 100% offshore-manufactured products. Especially their break cues -- there's nothing special about them (yes, I've tried 'em). They've had quality issues as well in the past, and a quick search on these forums will turn up hits on the ferrules "telescoping" into the shaft, the joint shattering the wood behind it, etc.

You could've saved your money and got a Mike Gulyassy Anvil or Orange Crusher, or any of a number of lesser-priced (but just as good or better) break cue product. Unfortunately, the Predator "death star" marketing gets a lot of people.

Goose1972 said:

So I've been wondering Is it the Black Dot, the Meucci Butt, the Schon, the Z2, the BK2, great marketing, my stroke.. Joss seems like a lateral move price wise to the meucci. Sunk a few balls with one once and it felt nice, didn't use enough to really compare the two. No ones really talking about many other production cues, and custom cues all the makers and names and prices its just overwhelming.

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Actually, there are PLENTY of equitably-priced custom cues to be found. I think you're limiting yourself to Schon and Joss (although these are technically considered production cue makers, not customs, although they can custom-make one for you).

Goose1972 said:

From a few threads here it looked like most people to put it nicely were saying Schon was an improvement over Meucci. Wondering if this is more of a Support Mom/Pop versus Big Corporations thing, or if it truly is the next class in cue for me. Sounds like a lot of people here have good things to say about the Schon hit. More Specifically The Schon Butt hit, as it appears many folks are using Z2's or some other fancy LD shaft.

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I tend to take folks' description of "hit" with different butts with a grain of salt, especially when using a fancy LD shaft. Most of the hit of a cue is in the shaft. (I say "most," because yes, some of the feel of the hit transfers through the joint -- which itself has something to do with the hit -- and the butt. But the lion's share of the hit comes from the shaft. Just change the shaft on your existing cue, and feel how different the hit can be. Shafts can be everything from whippy, to punchy, to stiff, to dead.)

Goose1972 said:

As stated I prefered my Meucci Blackdot to the Z2, and am wondering
1) How the Schon with a Schon shaft would compare to a Meucci
2) Are the new Schon shafts worse then the old
3) If the Z2 on a Schon would be much different to a Z2 on a Meucci, or on a Predator butt, both of which I did not care much for.
4) If maybe im just a PC (Meucci) and most others are Macs (Schon)

Please dont tell me how your horrible Meucci Co. stories about receiving bent cues, cracked ferrules, or called and spoke to a robot. I've already read enough about that.

I just want to hear about the differences in Play/feel, and whether It really would be beneficial to buy a 500 dollar and up cue, then put that shaft aside again and buy another for 200 plus.

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Unfortunately, what you're asking for is VERY subjective information. One person's description of a type of hit can (and is) different from yours. This is especially true with the ubiquitous and overused "hits a ton." WTF does that mean?

Also, your personal style / stance / grip / physical/anatomical features translate a LOT into how you perceive the play and feel of a particular cue. Posting a thread asking for folk's impression of this, while useful, will only get you so far. You have to put yourself into situations where you can experiment. Do you have access to a pro shop that will let you hit with a couple cues (i.e. they don't mind you chalking the cue)? If so, take advantage of that. But know this -- many pro shops offer only one or two different brands/makes/models of cue (the deals they strike with vendors). At SBE, actually, you had a chance to try many different brands/makes/models of cues. Trade shows are great for that, unlike pro shops.

Goose1972 said:

Also, if someone can finally answer the age old question on whether there are any benefits from points and inlays asides from looks, I would appreciate

Peace,
A newbie

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"Points" enter in the realm of splicing -- whether the cue is spliced or not -- and that definitely has an effect on the play/feel/hit of a cue. Inlays, however, do not -- they are purely decorative.

I hope this was somewhat helpful, especially in context with the other responses you get.

-Sean

I have a few Meucci's here and a recent Schon ltd.
They hit totally different. Neither is low deflection, the Schon is worse in that department.imo
The Schon hits like a brick. The meucci's hit softer, but still solidly. again imo.
The Schon butt is thinner and has the weight balance more forward than the Meucci.
I switch between them when I need a change, and a change they are!
I do think I get less spin on the ball with the Schon, but more squirt.
I have an ob1 Schon shaft that takes away the brick hit and a lot of the squirt. It's starting to be my cue of choice.

I like them both. :smile:

Goose1972 said:

I just want to hear about the differences in Play/feel, and whether It really would be beneficial to buy a 500 dollar and up cue, then put that shaft aside again and buy another for 200 plus.

Also, if someone can finally answer the age old question on whether there are any benefits from points and inlays asides from looks, I would appreciate



Peace,
A newbie

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My opinion and experience stems from buying a Joss sneaky in the early 90's. Playing leagues and having a good time with other players I soon realized that this $200 cue preformed as well as anyone elses cue including those above $1000. This was not only my opinion but other cue owners as well.

Schon and Joss "more so Schon on this forum" have for the most part been recognized as being an affordable manufactured cue that doesn't compromise playability. Since my first Joss purchase I have never looked back I have owned several other cues that have been sold or traded I still own my first Joss.

My main player now is a Joss "avatar" thats a highly figured curly maple butt and forearm with coco rings and an African black wood handle "wrap-less". Its not a production Joss its been signed and I have a certificate of authenticity it was made by Dan Janes. It was very affordable came with 2 shafts as well.

The point in my rambling is you can purchases a Schon or Joss and expect it perform as well as custom cues costing many times more. My very good friend plays with a high end Schon he can switch to my old Joss sneeky and feel right at home, never missing a beat.

Meucci black dot on the other hand has a hit thats preferred by many but IMO is softer than most customs as well as Schons.

My three main players are all Joss, old sneaky wood to phenolic joint, PH handled sneaky phenolic to phenolic joint. And the cue in my avatar SS joint with scrolled engraving. All wrap-less and rather plain, but they all play lights out. My total investment in the 3 is less than many customs but I don't feel as though I have compromised performance.