Green Fees at the Rio
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Inspectorsparky
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Thumbs down Green Fees at the Rio - 07-30-2013, 03:41 PM

I know I'm not the only one with this opinion, but I thought the green fees at the Rio for 2013 were a little steep for not being allowed to practice. There were supposed to be plenty of tables for practice; not the case in my experience. I heard that was the case before teams showed up, and that may be, but Tuesday night before teams the entire back tournament room was closed or limited to mini tournaments only-so much for practice and getting some return on my $35 investment. I spoke with Mark Griffin and he just passed the buck like a career politician and said he didn't have control and that CSI was running/managing the tournament. There were always tables available when you had to drop a coin.
The green fees are definitely set for the upper level players and pool hall gamblers in my opinion. I'm an average league player that has played in this tournament for 14 or 15 consecutive years now, and it limited the events I played in this year and unless the green fees change it will be my last donation to this tournament. I understand that the green fee system is convenient and it always benefits the house, but this year, for the average player, it's not a good value. Like many others I didn't like it going in, but I had to check it out to see the new venue at the Rio.
  
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I agree!!
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I agree!! - 07-30-2013, 05:09 PM

I'm a league operator and have played 8yrs in a row, but will be taking a break not only because of green fees but overall cost at the Rio. I played 9-ball, 8-ball singles and 8-ball teams total of $95 in green fees...I'm the type of player who hits one rack and I want to start the set. I guess good thing because there was a lack of practice tables. For a year now I was told by Mark and CSI
there would be 300 tables....268 was my count for tournament tables. 268 was almost the same amount as the Riviera. I was kicked off of 3 tables on Tuesday night because of Mini Tournaments...I finally gave up and headed to my room. My team cashed last year, this year we went 2 and out losing 13-10 and 13-1. That means we broke 19 times and we paid $175 in green fees. Matches were behind so we had no time to warm up. For me that was OK but my team had nothing but complaints about the $175 in green fees and looked at me because I am the league operator. I explained I was not in control of the green fees. The cafe was a joke $9 turkey sandwich, $4 20oz soda. I never thought I would miss the $5 nachos I made myself at the Riviera lol. I really think the green fees need to be re-thought thru. Like if your playing in more than one event maybe a flat fee. The feed back I got back from my league members is close if not the same as mine. I run a small league 100 players of which 25 of us were in Vegas this year most stayed at the Rio. I loved my room and the amenities of the Rio but the cost of the restaurants and general stores is at the top of my players complaints.
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And where was the action room??? I enjoyed having those 10-15 $10 tables!!

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07-30-2013, 06:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspectorsparky View Post
I spoke with Mark Griffin and he just passed the buck like a career politician and said he didn't have control and that CSI was running/managing the tournament.
Well I think you nail it on the head when you said "just passed the buck like a career politician", as I thought CSI was Markss Baby? Maybe I am wrong, and that is not out of character.

Now we will sit, and wait for Mark's reply. I really don't go to Sin City no more, but the RIO is a major improvement over the Riveria, and Circus Circus that both IMHO noting but the bottom of the Sin City barrel.


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07-30-2013, 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspectorsparky View Post
I know I'm not the only one with this opinion, but I thought the green fees at the Rio for 2013 were a little steep for not being allowed to practice. There were supposed to be plenty of tables for practice; not the case in my experience. I heard that was the case before teams showed up, and that may be, but Tuesday night before teams the entire back tournament room was closed or limited to mini tournaments only-so much for practice and getting some return on my $35 investment. I spoke with Mark Griffin and he just passed the buck like a career politician and said he didn't have control and that CSI was running/managing the tournament. There were always tables available when you had to drop a coin.
The green fees are definitely set for the upper level players and pool hall gamblers in my opinion. I'm an average league player that has played in this tournament for 14 or 15 consecutive years now, and it limited the events I played in this year and unless the green fees change it will be my last donation to this tournament. I understand that the green fee system is convenient and it always benefits the house, but this year, for the average player, it's not a good value. Like many others I didn't like it going in, but I had to check it out to see the new venue at the Rio.
So you walked up to the guy running the entire show who had been working 18-20 hours a day putting out fires with unions, the hotel, scheduling and a hundred other things for two solid weeks before you got there and wanted to complain. Then because he did not stop everything he was doing and give you the attention you feel you deserve because you spent $35 whole dollars on greens fees that makes him a "career politician"?

Also your quote makes no sense. "CSI is running the tournament." Mark is CSI and Bad Boys was running the amateur events. Due to the power outage they were hammered for two or three days afterwords and did an amazing job getting things caught back up. Its possible Mark did say it. A couple times I talked to him he was so wore out he was a little distracted also he had thirty other things going on at the same time.

I will bet that if you had called Mark at the CSI office yesterday or today he would of talked to you about your concerns at length. He was at the office. He was basically the only one at the office. Everyone else had the day off today. Maybe you can try to call him tomorrow at http://www.playbca.com/Contact/ContactUs.aspx . He will be in the office.

This whole "I'm pissed I'm going to start a thread instead of talking to someone who is actually involved" thing around here lately is just getting brutal.
  
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07-30-2013, 06:36 PM

The prices at the Rio were crazy. I went to the grocery store right away. I couldn't believe how expensive everything was.

Also, I sent my cues to the rio via ups. When I did, I prepaid for the shipping back. So before I left I used the old bubble wrap and box that it came in, put the label on and got it ready to ship. I carried it down to the ups store in the rio and the guy put three pieces of tape on it and charged me $ 12. I was pissed. It only cost $15 to ship it home.

Oh yea, $5 pepsi in the coke machines....Bucket of beer and three waters at the pool ? $49.50.


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07-30-2013, 07:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Txstang1 View Post
The prices at the Rio were crazy. I went to the grocery store right away. I couldn't believe how expensive everything was.

Also, I sent my cues to the rio via ups. When I did, I prepaid for the shipping back. So before I left I used the old bubble wrap and box that it came in, put the label on and got it ready to ship. I carried it down to the ups store in the rio and the guy put three pieces of tape on it and charged me $ 12. I was pissed. It only cost $15 to ship it home.

Oh yea, $5 pepsi in the coke machines....Bucket of beer and three waters at the pool ? $49.50.
Last time we went up to Las Vegas we stayed at the Rio, the Buffet was out of this world. Price was fair for the quality, selection, quality of food you got. Think the buffet was like $22.00.

Yes if you took stuff out of the mini bar, or if you bought drink and junk food from the Rio Hotel the prices were high. But we planned ahead, and brought out own beer, wine, soft drinks, and sneaks.

Of yes as we would use to go Sin City annually, and our Local Harrah'ss affiliate casino a couple of time a year we did not pay for the room, It was Comped, on our player club card.

We planned ahead, but I understand where you are coming from talking high prices. Nice thing about having wheels in Sin City, is you can drive away from the hotel a mine or two, and be in the land of prices like back home for stuff like beer, wine, soda, and sneaks.

Like I said I don't go to Sin City or Nevada no more, and am not planning on visiting the State that went to OBAMA in 2008 & 2012 soon.

If I get the bug to go to a Casino, gamble a little have a nice buffet we got nice Indian Casinos with 30 minute drive from home, with the same quality of buffets. Call Casino Arizona Talking Stick.


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07-31-2013, 08:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspectorsparky View Post
I know I'm not the only one with this opinion, but I thought the green fees at the Rio for 2013 were a little steep for not being allowed to practice. There were supposed to be plenty of tables for practice; not the case in my experience. I heard that was the case before teams showed up, and that may be, but Tuesday night before teams the entire back tournament room was closed or limited to mini tournaments only-so much for practice and getting some return on my $35 investment. I spoke with Mark Griffin and he just passed the buck like a career politician and said he didn't have control and that CSI was running/managing the tournament. There were always tables available when you had to drop a coin.
The green fees are definitely set for the upper level players and pool hall gamblers in my opinion. I'm an average league player that has played in this tournament for 14 or 15 consecutive years now, and it limited the events I played in this year and unless the green fees change it will be my last donation to this tournament. I understand that the green fee system is convenient and it always benefits the house, but this year, for the average player, it's not a good value. Like many others I didn't like it going in, but I had to check it out to see the new venue at the Rio.
Sparky,

Originally felt like you several months ago when the green fees were announced. Only played in the 9 Ball and Super Senior events. Thought $60 was a bit much. Guess between Wednesday morning and Sunday night I played at least that many racks. Both tournament and practice. Also spent several hours watching the "pro's" play. It might have been slightly high but not out of line. Quite honestly, no one ever challenged me about practicing. There also were no door guards so you could bring in outside food and beverage. All in all, the green fees were fair to most players. It's the wave of the future. Get used to it!

Lyn


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08-01-2013, 08:33 AM

Singles was fair, teams was out of line.
There should definatley be a reward for players playing in more than one event.

I liked the new layout just a few kinks to work out
  
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08-01-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by izquik72 View Post
Singles was fair, teams was out of line.
There should definatley be a reward for players playing in more than one event.

I liked the new layout just a few kinks to work out
Think some of the expense of the greens fee was to cover part of making the pro event free to all players and spectators. Having not accessed the pro event in recent years, I'm not sure what they charged. Found the idea of free entry a good one. The more players exposed to the best of the best, the more potential there is to peak interest and create the next generation of top players. All in all, think CSI / Bad Boys did a great job. Making my reservations for next year already!

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08-02-2013, 12:44 AM

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So you walked up to the guy running the entire show who had been working 18-20 hours a day putting out fires with unions, the hotel, scheduling and a hundred other things for two solid weeks before you got there and wanted to complain. Then because he did not stop everything he was doing and give you the attention you feel you deserve because you spent $35 whole dollars on greens fees that makes him a "career politician"?

Also your quote makes no sense. "CSI is running the tournament." Mark is CSI and Bad Boys was running the amateur events. Due to the power outage they were hammered for two or three days afterwords and did an amazing job getting things caught back up. Its possible Mark did say it. A couple times I talked to him he was so wore out he was a little distracted also he had thirty other things going on at the same time.

I will bet that if you had called Mark at the CSI office yesterday or today he would of talked to you about your concerns at length. He was at the office. He was basically the only one at the office. Everyone else had the day off today. Maybe you can try to call him tomorrow at http://www.playbca.com/Contact/ContactUs.aspx . He will be in the office.

This whole "I'm pissed I'm going to start a thread instead of talking to someone who is actually involved" thing around here lately is just getting brutal.
Justin,

You forgot to mention that the World Series of Poker didn't clear out on time, and put the whole BCA operation 36 hours behind right off the bat. That power outage was a MAJOR issue and I thought they handled it very well. I met Marc Griffin for the first time and he must have spent 20 minutes talking to me and my friend. Nicest guy ever from what I could tell.

The greens fees were a bit high, but its WAY better than dealing with putting coins in the tables. My only recommended change would be for people playing several events, I'm not sure its entirely fair to charge the greens fee for every event. It might be better to sell a day pass for like $5 or something. Or hell just charge everyone $50 for unlimited use. But I actually paid like over $100 in greens fees. This could be revised a bit, but overall not too terrible. I won $500 in prize money, so no real complaints.

Anyway, just thought I'd share.

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Fresh From the Over-Analyzing Dept.
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Fresh From the Over-Analyzing Dept. - 08-05-2013, 12:53 PM

Here's the breakdown of the greens fees, on average, for those (like me) playing 8-ball doubles, singles, and teams. $4.70 of the $10 pp doubles greens fee went towards match games. $14.30 of the $35 singles greens fee went towards match games. And $12.40 of the $35 pp team greens fee went towards match games. That means that out of a combined $80 greens fee, $48.60 (on average) is not used in matches.

At first when I saw that number I was a little shocked. But after thinking about it, it doesn't seem too bad.

If you are playing in all three of those tourneys, you will play, on average, 12 matches. Which means you likely will warm up before each of those 12 matches (assuming you could find a table). Let's assume that you rack em for practice once prior to each match. That's $12.

Then there is regular practice. Personally, I'd rather spend my extra time in front of a slot machine, but if I had to guess what the average number of extra practice games players had over the course of 9 days, I'd say it was another dozen. So that leaves roughly $24 unaccounted for.

In each mini-tournament, you will break, on average, 3.5 times. Play four minis over the course of 9 days and that's $14.

The other $10 can be accounted for in the second-chance tournaments. Players and teams that made it deep into tourneys clearly made out better than the two-and-outs with regards to greens fees, but the second-chance tournaments were the greens fee equalizer.

I really liked the fact that coin tables were ditched in favor of greens fees, even though I personally lost over $40 in the deal. I had every opportunity to practice more, had I wanted to (the roulette wheel was calling my name). I played no mini-tournaments, but I could have. And our team chose not to play in the 2nd chance tourney (I wasn't eligible for doubles or singles 2nd chance).

My only suggestion, should CSI wish to keep the total greens fees at the same level next year, would be to balance out the distribution of fees between the tournaments. For example, if you increase scotch doubles fees by $5 total per team, decrease team fees by $20 total per team, and increase singles fees by $5, the fees will be much more balanced among the 3 categories with respect to average match fees vs non-match fees, and the overall fees brought in would not change significantly.

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My take...
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My take... - 08-12-2013, 12:39 PM

I got to Vegas on tuesday, the day before singles 9 ball. The tables were opned up about 6PM for practice and I probably played for 3 hours. There were plenty of empty tables at that time.
The next day, I played in a couple matches and practiced some more. I actually practiced my break about 30-35 times. There was plenty of open tables still.
I played in one mini tournament, but they run so slow, I didn't play in any more. (I won but took too long) JMO
During the whole 9 ball singles, there was always empty tables to play on for practice.

Saturday, the 8 ball singles started. More people showed up and there were matches going everywhere. It was a little tougher to find empty tables to practice on until later in the evenings. After 10PM there was usually empty tables.

I got plenty of practice before/during and after the 9 ball/8 ball singles.

On tuesday, before teams, tons of players were showing up. It was almost impossible to fins any empty tables to practice on. I really didn't need practice, but felt a lil bad for players who just showed for the team event. I think the greens fee should be lowered a bit for the team event, they really didn't get to play much as far as practice goes. Of course they could always practice after 11PM or so, if they wanted to stay up.

Overall, I got my monies worth. But, even if it cost me a few bucks more, I would say it's worth it to keep the tables open. For a couple reasons....1) you don't have to find a change machine and carry 2lbs. worth of coins and 2) you don't have to call a referee every time the 8 goes on the break or a ball gets jammed up somehow.

Prices of things at the Rio were a different story........



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08-14-2013, 05:21 PM

I know during the team event, it was basically impossible to get a table & when our team had a match we did have to kick people off.
I also looked at the map that was given out & for some reason never found the practice room with 12 additional tables. I think it was used as the bracket room.
I won a few matches in the 8ball open & our team cashed so I guess it evened out for us, but I was hearing complaints & if you came a long ways for just the team event & went 2 and out, that might end up being a much more expensive trip.

Prices at the Rio were double what the Riviera charged for basically everything.

All in all, it was still a good time but if I was more strapped for cash I might reconsider.
  
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08-23-2013, 09:37 PM

I'll preface this by saying this was the first time I'd been to BCAPL Nationals, though I have been to APA Nationals a few times.

I liked the greens fees, but I only played in the 8ball singles, which had a $30 greens fee (I think). That got me 3 days of all-I-could-play, meaning a per-day cost of $10. I think most people would be very happy if their pool hall only charged $10/day. Or, to beak it down differently, I played about 8.5hrs, including practice. That's works out to about $3.50/hr for table time. That's not exactly breaking the bank. Plus, as mentioned earlier, no dealing with tokens AND I also got to watch the pros. No complaints here!

(I can see how it might be different for players there for teams where tables are scarce or for people playing multiple events and paying multiple greens fees.)

As for the venue, I really liked the Rio. Decent rooms and the tournament area was much nicer... seemed roomier and fewer bottlenecks. The food seemed pricier than the Riv, but I think that had more to do with the lack of low-end options. I never thought I'd say it, but I missed that food court at the Riv... maybe it wasn't the best food, but it was quick and (relatively) cheap.

I'm definitely going to be attending BCAPL Nationals many more times.
  
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JumpinJoe
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09-05-2013, 10:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by izquik72 View Post
Singles was fair, teams was out of line.
There should definatley be a reward for players playing in more than one event.

I liked the new layout just a few kinks to work out
I like that thought. Makes sense. The more events someone plays, the more each green fee should go down a little. Maybe $5 per event.
The team event is to high, by far.

The Rio, which is a major upgrade from the riviera is fine. You are going to pay more for bettor places, any and everywhere, that's just how it works.


"Pool and smoke been together as long as peanut butter and jelly. Tell SVB stay home." ~Juice~

Who named the Diamond 10 Foot Table? And the Big Foot Invitational? The first to reply, in the thread below, post #63.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showth...=299855&page=5
  
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