Why would someone NOT want an LD shaft???

New2Cue said:

If an LD shaft really does produce a straighter shot with less squirt, why do some people not want one? I understand that some people have been playing for a long time and possibly with the same cue so they might not want to have to relearn thei aiming but other than that what could be the reason?

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There's things you can't do with a LD shaft. Try jumping the edge of a ball in a no jump cue tournament . A LD shaft makes you stay closer to center CB because of design. It's made to come off the CB instead of pushing/deflecting it over

Less feel and some have trouble controlling speed with hollowed-end shafts.
Like Ronnie Alcano who quit using one. Efren tried one and threw it right there .

Some do not like their tapers as well.

I play with a custom cue. I can't imagine why anyone would pay to have a custom cue made and then totally change the way it was built to play by puting and LD shaft on it. I much prefer the feel, hit and feedback I get from my Jeff Olney cue and shaft than any other LD shaft I have ever played with. And I played with a Predator 314 on a Schon for a long time. And I have also used OB....same thing.

peteypooldude said:

There's things you can't do with a LD shaft. Try jumping the edge of a ball in a no jump cue tournament . A LD shaft makes you stay closer to center CB because of design. It's made to come off the CB instead of pushing/deflecting it over

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It it difficult to jump the edge of an object ball with MOST LD full-length cue/shafts but not all OF THEM.

My LD full-length cue jumps a half-ball like it was a Lil Joey and is accurate on shots that are long distance and can even draw the cue ball at the long distance. Full ball, not so good.

Have to pull out the Steve Lomax jump cue for full ball jumps or when the cue ball and object ball are very close together. Lol

JoeyA

One reason might be that some of players (myself included) do not move the cueball great distances with lots of english for position. Games like 14.1, 8-ball and One Pocket do not require the type of cue ball movement that is needed in 9 ball or 10 ball. I rarely use extreme side english, so an LD shaft is really not necessary for my style of play. Plus, as already mentioned, shafts that have a hollow chamber can feel "dead" to a lot of players. That was my experience when I tried them.

-dj

New2Cue said:

If an LD shaft really does produce a straighter shot with less squirt, why do some people not want one? I understand that some people have been playing for a long time and possibly with the same cue so they might not want to have to relearn thei aiming but other than that what could be the reason?

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Because some people:

A. have deflection/squirt compensation built-in to the their PSR / shot approach / aiming;

B. prefer the nice resonant hit of a solid maple shaft over "glueware" any day of the week;

C. prefer to keep their "wallabushka skills" (i.e. the ability to play off the wall) sharp, and not have their whole playing skillset "rely" and "hinge upon" the use of an LD shaft;

D. be able to use their playing cue as both a breaker and a player (and not have to worry about damaging an LD / laminated shaft);

E. be able to jump and masse with their playing cue (easy to do with a plain maple shaft; try *that* with an LD shaft!);

F. want to support their particular cue-maker's skillsets and business, by using a shaft perfectly matched to the butt of the cue. (Otherwise, cue makers tend to be "just cue butt makers" -- with the shaft-making business relegated to the LD companies.)

...and any of a number of other reasons.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big advocate of OB Pro (formerly "Classic Pro") shafts, because, to me, they are the closest in hit and feel to a plain maple shaft I've tried. And I like the consistency I get when I put an OB Pro on any of my cues -- I know what to expect, and there's no adjustment needed.

But at the same time, I do miss my wallabushka skills, because I've grown so accustomed to the consistency that my OB Pro gives me. And I hate having to break out my jump cue when presented with a jump shot (i.e. in a short-rack rotation game). At least with the OB pro, masses are possible, but jumps less so (unless it's only jumping the edge of a ball). I'm uneasy about really slamming an OB Pro into a ball to jump it.

Hope that helps explain it.

peteypooldude said:

There's things you can't do with a LD shaft. Try jumping the edge of a ball in a no jump cue tournament . A LD shaft makes you stay closer to center CB because of design. It's made to come off the CB instead of pushing/deflecting it over

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Yep -- and more and more tourneys seem to be outlawing jump cues these days. (It seems, anyway.) It's nice to be able to rely on your playing cue shaft's ability to withstand the force of being driven down into a ball, and that's certainly plain maple shaft territory.

-Sean

Or they know how to apply sidespin properly and the ld shaft doesn't make any difference. So, they stick with the normal shaft because they like the feel.

ps611846 said:

Or they know how to apply sidespin properly and the ld shaft doesn't make any difference. So, they stick with the normal shaft because they like the feel.

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Lol at low deflection not making any difference. In my experience old timers use regular shafts and young whipper snappers use low deflection (not always but the advocates each way seem to follow this pattern).

Because they suck.Very simple!:smile::smile:
Imagine how would look like and feel like if sports shoes companies would produce LD sport shoes,for soccer for an example.So,whenever you kick a ball it goes straight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No ENGLISH.
Ask some PLAYERS what they think about them.

zpele said:

Lol at low deflection not making any difference. In my experience old timers use regular shafts and young whipper snappers use low deflection (not always but the advocates each way seem to follow this pattern).

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Lol at your post !!!!! You think you know how to apply sidespin ???? Do you know how to use proper footwork for inside and outside??? Do you know that there are different feet positions for inside and other for outside ??? Do you know where to place your bridge and cue tip on the cueball and pivot from there to apply spin??? Do you know how footwork changes as distance increases??? Do you know how these alignments change with speed ????? Guess you know nothing about all the above. But you think you know a lot about the game. Like lots of others in this forum.......

this...

Scherf said:

I play with a custom cue. I can't imagine why anyone would pay to have a custom cue made and then totally change the way it was built to play by puting and LD shaft on it. I much prefer the feel, hit and feedback I get from my Jeff Olney cue and shaft than any other LD shaft I have ever played with. And I played with a Predator 314 on a Schon for a long time. And I have also used OB....same thing.

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This is my reason why I don't play with LD shaft. I got my custom Lambros and I like the way it hits with the regular shaft that came with it.
I used to play with predator z2 shaft and now I can't make 3 balls in a row with any cue with LD shaft on it.

Don't need it?

I believe there are many world class players who shoot good with a good maple shaft and their game proves it, so they probably believe they do not need a "low deflection" shaft. I have a couple of Pat Diviney Lake Salvage shafts for my Diviney cue. I also have a OB Classic shaft fitted to that cue. I am far from a world class player, but I can still run a rack at times. I am not good enough to know all the differences in shafts, but I prefer the Diviney shafts. I think more table time and good technique is what most shooters need. The old saying "perfect practice makes perfect technique" is for the most part true. But, like most things, if some one is convinced some thing helps it probably will. Has an independent scientific study ever been done, that clearly shows a "low defection" shaft doing what it claims to do?

I'll soon be switching from LD back to a standard shaft.

Reasons:
I can't jump full cue with a LD shaft.
My speed control has changed, maybe not in a good way.
Cue feels dead with a LD shaft.
LD shafts are too light and throw the balance off.

For me it's the feel. Used to shoot with one of the LD shafts...when I got my Josey, I just loved the feedback of the standard shaft. I have no desire to use anything else.

Ak Guy said:

Has an independent scientific study ever been done, that clearly shows a "low deflection" shaft doing what it claims to do?

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"Low deflection" shafts produce less squirt on off-center hits. That is a fact. Physics models and experimental data both support it. You can get an LD shaft and prove it to yourself if you don't believe it.

The question is not whether they do what they claim to, it's whether it's worth it, which comes down to understanding the pros and cons of an LD shaft. You can find a good run-down of both here: http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#advantages. A lot of people don't seem to get the entire magnitude of the first advantage listed (that less compensation also means less error), so it's worth taking some time to read the article that it links to. Another way of looking at it is to say that LD shafts are more forgiving of cue tip placement if you have aimed correctly.

New2Cue said:

.... they might not want to have to relearn their aiming but other than that what could be the reason?

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For me, that's reason #1.

Reason #2 is because I don't need one.

Ehh learned to play with a 314. Maybe not the best thing to do but whatever. I can shoot just fine with a standard cue. Honestly can switch back and forth between both my p2, lambros, and a house cue and shoot fine with either. Only time I really notice the difference is in shooting long distances with inside. Outside, draw, or top seem to be about the same with all cues. Inside is another story for some reason but that doesn't mean I can't adjust and still make the ball. For me I just shoot with a 314 cause its comfortable. Speed control does seem to be a little better with a standard shaft but I just shoot more accurately and confidently with a ld shaft.

I've been crushed by people who use ld shafts, smashed by old timers and younger players who use standard maple, and beaten by pros who use both. So to sum it up, it doesn't matter.

We are all entitled to our opinions.
Well my opinion is that all developing players should be playing with a LD shaft.

Yes my Z2 is made in China and that sucks. But the damn shaft plays so consistent. Never surprises me. Helps my confidence which ensures rapid improvement

If you don't believe me I could show you for $20 a game. Come to. Naples

I started making long shots with sidespin more frequently after trying a LD shaft and I stuck with it. I don't care why or how.. Only that I make the balls when I play! Lol