The designs of these LISHAN cues look very similar to Helmstetter cues.

Looking for opinions on the quality of these old LISHAN cues, from the 80's? Is / was the quality on far with the Adam / Helmstetter cues from the same era? Are these LISHAN cues worth much money at all? Thank you for any opinions about these LISHAN cues in particular, if you are aware of how well made there were.
 

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3kushn

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's my understanding that Helmsetter designed and built his cues here here first in the US before going to Japan/Adams for semi mass production.

Your pic doesn't tell me much about construction. Only looks.
 
It's my understanding that Helmsetter designed and built his cues here here first in the US before going to Japan/Adams for semi mass production.

Your pic doesn't tell me much about construction. Only looks.

No, I believe that he designed them, but they were always made in Japan, ever since Adam started in around 1970. I read somewhere that Helmstetter was a cue maker before he moved to Japan, to run the Adam cue factory, but I have never seen a Helmstetter custom cue, that was actually made by him. Helmstetter cues were made by Adam, in Japan.

Anyways, back to the topic of my thread. Does anyone know the quality of these LISHAN cues, and if the quality was on par with Helmstetter cues of the same era, in your opinion? Thanks.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Made by Kao Kao of Taiwan, huge manufacturer of many Taiwan cues at the time. The Chinese cues of the 80's were not the quality later achieved by brands such as Lucasi and definitely not Adam quality. They are not shy about copying designs. You can buy one cheap and test it out yourself. Kao Kao made many lines including outsourced for Lucasi and they owned the Cobra trademark. They made those "Palmer" named cues after the original company folded.
 
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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
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Richard Helmstetter started making cues in the 1960's. The first group of cues he made were taken and sold out at one of the Johnson City Tournaments run by the Jansco Brothers. Within a couple of years of this Richard was hired to set up cue making operation in Chicago Illinois by the National Billiards Chalk company. At National Richard worked with many up and coming cues makers, such as Paul Huebler, Bob Meucci, Rico Cervanties and the list go's on. In late 1969 Richard became Partners with David Foreman and together they started the Adam Cue Company, by the way Adam was the name of Davids new born son. David already had a company in Japan making cues that he imported and sold in America. Richard soon left the USA and move to Japan to set up and completely re-tool the factory that to this day is known as Adam Custom Cues.

I personally do not know what Richards earliest cues looked like or if they were even signed, because during the 1960's signing cues was not something that was really done. During the late 1970's Richard sold his interest in Adam cue and pursued other interests, Golf being one. Richard also invented one of th emost famous Golf clubs ever made and it was called the Big Burth. Richard still did consulting for Adam Cues during the 1980's and also during this time a number of 1/1, 1/25, 1/50 cues were made that are hand signed and dated by Richard Helmstetter. I am unsure if he actually made these cues himself or if they were a limited product of cues that Richard designed, but they are really nice cues, and they come with two matching shafts. However, like all cues associated with Richard or Adam Custom Cues they have never become ultra collectible which is truly ashame because in my opinion they are great cues. In addition Richard Helmstetter also has been a major innovator in the history Cue making who deserves far much more credit than he has ever received.
 
Made by Kao Kao of Taiwan, huge manufacturer of many Taiwan cues at the time. The Chinese cues of the 80's were not the quality later achieved by brands such as Lucasi and definitely not Adam quality. They are not shy about copying designs. You can buy one cheap and test it out yourself. Kao Kao made many lines including outsourced for Lucasi and they owned the Cobra trademark. They made those "Palmer" named cues after the original company folded.

Thanks for your reply. Speaking of Palmer, Adam made a very beautiful line of Palmer cues.

http://www.palmercollector.com/PBLine.html
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
Thanks for your reply. Speaking of Palmer, Adam made a very beautiful line of Palmer cues.

http://www.palmercollector.com/PBLine.html

Yes, that actually is my website. Adam fully made the PB and PM lines from Peter Balner and Peter Margo's designs. Those are good cues and a good value for the money.

Kao Kao was one of the largest manufacturers and a lot of companies outsourced production to them - still do.
 
Yes, that actually is my website. Adam fully made the PB and PM lines from Peter Balner and Peter Margo's designs. Those are good cues and a good value for the money.

Kao Kao was one of the largest manufacturers and a lot of companies outsourced production to them - still do.

Lol, I should have realized that that is your website. Thanks for all of the info.
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
IIRC KaoKao makes almost all of J&J's import cues. Pretty nice cues for the $.

Someday it would be fun to find and list all the brands made by the dominant Chinese manufacturers, just for the sake of history. The info is not easy to find - we would probably need an insider at each company.
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Made by Kao Kao of Taiwan, huge manufacturer of many Taiwan cues at the time. The Chinese cues of the 80's were not the quality later achieved by brands such as Lucasi and definitely not Adam quality. They are not shy about copying designs. You can buy one cheap and test it out yourself. Kao Kao made many lines including outsourced for Lucasi and they owned the Cobra trademark. They made those "Palmer" named cues after the original company folded.

My Lucasi had a made in China sticker on it.
You say it was made by Kao Kao in Taiwan?
Am I missing something here?
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My Lucasi had a made in China sticker on it.
You say it was made by Kao Kao in Taiwan?
Am I missing something here?

I think some of the Taiwan cue factories may have moved some of their productions to China due to the cheaper cost to manufacture there.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lucasi's are made in the Hamson/Universal factory in China. Same plant makes Predator, ADAM, Players and others.
 
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