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BC21
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09-11-2019, 01:26 PM

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Originally Posted by born2push View Post
How do you adjust for english when you aim? I think it depends on a few variables. The type of shaft, the speed of the shot, and the contact point on the cb. I normally pivot from closer to ccb when applying english.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
OK, so you adjust your bridge hand closer to the CB?

I would imagine pivot aimers just stop the pivot or sweep a little short of ccb or extend it a little beyond ccb, basically incorporating bhe into the pivot or sweep. If born2push is saying he makes the adjustments by moving his bridge hand closer or farther from the cb, then that's a bit unusual.


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09-11-2019, 01:37 PM

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Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I would imagine pivot aimers just stop the pivot or sweep a little short of ccb or extend it a little beyond ccb, basically incorporating bhe into the pivot or sweep. If born2push is saying he makes the adjustments by moving his bridge hand closer or farther from the cb, then that's a bit unusual.
I didn't understand what Born2push said, but I am genuinely interested in his reply. I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to make the move from a pivot to center over to a bottom right/left or top right/left strike without losing the perception. Is it, as you suggest, cooked in or is it another adjustment requiring a reset? I just don't understand.
  
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09-11-2019, 02:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
I didn't understand what Born2push said, but I am genuinely interested in his reply. I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to make the move from a pivot to center over to a bottom right/left or top right/left strike without losing the perception. Is it, as you suggest, cooked in or is it another adjustment requiring a reset? I just don't understand.
A helpful tip. Don't place your bridge hand on the felt until you perform the pivot. Once you have the perception of the shot the bend straight down. While keeping your perception glance down at the pivot point lining up your cue tip from that point to the aim point on ob. Then just pivot to center cb. There are vids on youtube showing how to adjust for english. Reguardless of how you get to the shot line. With a traditional shaft you just pivot over to apply english. With ld shaft you move the entire cue over (in parrallel line)to the desired point.

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Re: - 09-11-2019, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
I didn't understand what Born2push said, but I am genuinely interested in his reply. I'm just not smart enough to figure out how to make the move from a pivot to center over to a bottom right/left or top right/left strike without losing the perception. Is it, as you suggest, cooked in or is it another adjustment requiring a reset? I just don't understand.
If you are using BHE, FHE or a combination of both you need to be on the shot line before making an adjustment for english/side spin.
So what I did whilst learning cte was to do a 1/2 tip pivot to the shot line first then adjust for side spin as needed.
Once you get used to the method it can be simplified on some shots.
ie. If your perception calls for a 1/2 tip left sweep to center but you need a half tip of left english with BHE then you are already on the shot line.
  
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09-11-2019, 02:57 PM

BC21, Born2push, and Stock,

Thank you for your replies.

I keep coming back to one almost tangential, but related question that won't go away. Is there a statistical difference between the efficacy of a parallel strike vs. a pivoted strike?
Regardless of traditional shaft or LD shaft, is one angle of attack more likely to produce squirt than the other?

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09-11-2019, 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
BC21, Born2push, and Stock,

Thank you for your replies.

I keep coming back to one almost tangential, but related question that won't go away. Is there a statistical difference between the efficacy of a parallel strike vs. a pivoted strike?
Regardless of traditional shaft or LD shaft, is one angle of attack more likely to produce squirt than the other?

Thank you.
This is not directed at you personally.
Why must there always be a choice between one method or another.
When I learned to play snooker everyone said that parallel was the only way to go.
Normal deflection cues were the norn. Adjust for angle speed and spin, practice.
Then when I moved to USA and played pool people were using pivots for English so I tried that method as well.
I use both in my game today, which one I use will depend on the situation. I have a preference for using parallel English on longer slower shots for example.
  
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09-11-2019, 06:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
BC21, Born2push, and Stock,

Thank you for your replies.

I keep coming back to one almost tangential, but related question that won't go away. Is there a statistical difference between the efficacy of a parallel strike vs. a pivoted strike?
Regardless of traditional shaft or LD shaft, is one angle of attack more likely to produce squirt than the other?

Thank you.
Not really. The cb will squirt to the side anytime it is struck off center because the mass of the cue pushes it that way as the tip moves across the rotating surface of the ball. Luckily the shaft flexes and deflects away from the cb. If not the cb would have extreme squirt because with no shaft deflection the cb is deflected near 100%. It squirts less with LD shafts because the mass of the cb is more prominent against the lighter end mass of the ld shaft.

Same as stockbob55 posted, I use both methods, and it's a situational thing.


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09-11-2019, 06:38 PM

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Originally Posted by stockbob55 View Post
This is not directed at you personally.
Why must there always be a choice between one method or another.
When I learned to play snooker everyone said that parallel was the only way to go.
Normal deflection cues were the norn. Adjust for angle speed and spin, practice.
Then when I moved to USA and played pool people were using pivots for English so I tried that method as well.
I use both in my game today, which one I use will depend on the situation. I have a preference for using parallel English on longer slower shots for example.
I wasn't suggesting that a player had to make a choice. I was asking if one approach was likely to alter the desired outcome more than the other approach. Both you and BC21 seem confident that, given the proper circumstances, outcomes should not be negatively affected using either method. Both of your replies should offer great comfort to those of us who may be, shall we say, a little "set in our ways."

Thank you very much.
  
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09-11-2019, 07:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
I wasn't suggesting that a player had to make a choice. I was asking if one approach was likely to alter the desired outcome more than the other approach. Both you and BC21 seem confident that, given the proper circumstances, outcomes should not be negatively affected using either method. Both of your replies should offer great comfort to those of us who may be, shall we say, a little "set in our ways."



Thank you very much.
I belive it was dr. Dave billiard instructor that noted the approach for applying english on standard vrs ld shafts. The difference is on ld shaft you get less squirt so your aim line is a little different. On longer shots the english tends to have less throw on ob so a parallel shift still works. The simular concept of how much low english you need to stop the cue ball is more on longer shots. When you just pivot it changes your aim line slightly but the squirt brings the cue ball back in line. Of course practice still is required to see how your cue will react.

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09-11-2019, 08:23 PM

Great feedback! Thanks to one and all.

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09-11-2019, 09:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar View Post
Is there a statistical difference between the efficacy of a parallel strike vs. a pivoted strike?
Regardless of traditional shaft or LD shaft, is one angle of attack more likely to produce squirt than the other?
Only one angle of attack works for the shot - “parallel” & pivoted are different ways of getting to the same place.

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09-12-2019, 05:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Only one angle of attack works for the shot - “parallel” & pivoted are different ways of getting to the same place.

pj
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And, as you pointed out in a different thread once, the "parallel" method probably isn't truly parallel. It feels parallel to the player, but a true parallel shift would not provide the same cb path as the bhe method when all other factors are equivalent (same shaft, tip, stroke speed, and cue elevation).

For those who struggle pocketing balls when applying english:

Using a halfball shot to the right as an example, where the ob is about 2 feet from the cb and a medium stroke speed is going to be used, your cue is first lined straight through ccb to the left edge of the ob. Using bhe from this shot/aim line, you pivot your back hand just enough to apply 1 tip of right english. Now your cue is on a line a few degrees off from the shot line (anywhere from about 2 to 4 depending on your bridge hand placement). The objective is to offset the cb squirt angle, so even though you're angled a few degrees right of the shot line, the cb will squirt left, very close to the same offset angle you created with the bhe move. This is why you have to experiment with your specific cue in order to find the correct bridge distance that balances out the cb squirt angle with the bhe pivot angle. There is cb swerve also (slight masse due to the natural elevation of your cue on a normal stroke), which is really just a factor on longer shots with at least a few feet between cb and ob. But it's also speed dependent, meaning a soft stroke can make swerve an issue on closer shots too.

Using "parallel" english on this same halfball shot will have your entire cue stick shifted exactly 1 tip right of the shot line, not angled a few degrees from it. The cb will still squirt a few degrees to the left when you hit it. And since you aren't compensating for the squirt you're likely going to overcut the ob. Since the distance between the balls is only a couple of feet, you would need a softer stroke to allow some cb swerve to occur, hopefully just enough to offset the squirt so that the cb contacts the ob as needed.

Paying attention to where your cue/stroke is pointed in relation to the shot line, and paying attention to how the cb moves in reference to the shot line, is how you eventually gain the experience needed to just step up to any shot and automatically know how to strike the cb with any spin and still be able to pocket the ob.


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CTE Pro One marches on...it cannot be stopped.
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Thumbs up CTE Pro One marches on...it cannot be stopped. - 09-21-2019, 05:45 AM

CONGRATULATIONS !!!.
CONGRATULATIONS TO TYLER STYER 2019 KREMLIN CUP CHAMPION
Earning the title of CHAMPION is something that most can only dream of. Fantastic job, Tyler.
Chalk one up for Hal Houle as CTE PRO ONE shines brightly on the international stage.
Real Center-to-Edge is here to stay.


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09-21-2019, 07:59 AM

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CTE Pro One marches on...it cannot be stopped.
lol

It's an obscure aiming system, not world peace.

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"but...but...but...but....ad nauseum
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"but...but...but...but....ad nauseum - 09-22-2019, 11:34 AM

1. "but, but, he dropped his elbow" (thus spaketh some overpriced instructors)
2. "That system of CTE is a big lie and Shuffett misleads in order to sell stuff"
3. "It's just an obscure aiming system...(even though the quoter babbled about it incessantly for over 15 years so it wouldn't be obscure)
4. "Mosconi didn't do that"....(Mosconi didn't run 626 balls either. So what?)
5. "It will never work, fractions are the way to go". (thus spaketh the book writing people)

Tyler Styer is in Moscow, Russia.
4 hrs
Very pleased to win the Kremlin Cup. David Alcaide has been cueing the ball extremely well this year and played a great event to get to the final. For me to beat someone of his caliber in the final, which is always a high standard, feels great. He's had a great year so far and is definitely in contention for a captain's pick in the Mosconi Cup. We didnt play perfect whole set, but to play perfect pool for 15 games is a little unreasonable under the circumstances. Overall it is was a good match and happy to get my hands on my first trophy.
Thanks so much to all the organizers and sponsors of the event. Its was a great tournament. Beautiful venue, ceremonies, tables, match times, etc. Cant wait to be back.
Thanks so much to my supportive family, girlfriend, friends, fans, and sponsors!
Next up is the Dream Challenge against the Russians tomorrow!
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