Action Story - The Gambler vs The (well you fill in the blank)

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
I thought I would relay from time to time some of the gambling scenes I have witnessed over the years. Not that I am some big time gambler but have seen a lot thru the years.

Two locals, Ryan and a player from Chicago, were playing 9 ball, races to 11 for 1000 jellybeans. Both of these players have grown up gambling from the time they could count to 10. Ryan's father is a well known St Louis pool icon (for lack of a better word) and instilled just a tad bit of heart into his son. Here is the story:

The first set- nothing goes Ryan's way and he loses 11-0. It was a complete wipe out and he never had a chance. Without hesitation, Ryan pulls a quarter out of his pocket and says call it, ready to play a second set. Now this act of confidence was the first of two points that Ryan made that day which swayed the final result of this story that you will read. I need to add that Ryan was betting his own money (maybe with a small corporation involved in part of the bet) and Chicago player was getting staked. The other player's backer puts up the cabbage for the second set and they carry on.

Ryan wins the second set 11-0 equaling the blanking he had just received. I'm sure the Chicago player and his backer's head were spinning thinking they had a sure 2000 win for the day before the start of the second set. Obviously Ryan had other intentions.

They carry on to a third set, again same wager. This time it is much closer as the score remains close throughout. Ryan gets to the hill first but the other player joins him on the next game and the score is tied 10-10. The other player's backer asks Ryan if he wants to start over and double the bet or increase the bet. Ryan answers without hesitation - no I want to play one game for 1000. The other player's backer asks him again trying to convince him - don't you want to start over??, my man is breaking. Again Ryan answers - no I want to play one game for 1000.

Now we have reached the second act that Ryan took that day to get paid. His brashness and gamble was more than player and his backer wanted. The other player's backer tells Ryan - we are not going to play one game for 1000. Ryan replies - well that is what I want to do. If you don't want to play and the money is obviously posted, you can buy out for 200. The backer agreed and hands Ryan 200. :eek:
 
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supergreenman

truly addicted
Silver Member
I thought I would relay from time to time some of the gambling scenes I have witnessed over the years. Not that I am some big time gambler but have seen a lot thru the years.

Two locals, Ryan and a player from Chicago, were playing 9 ball, races to 11 for 1000 jellybeans. Both of these players have grown up gambling from the time they could count to 10. Ryan's father is a well known St Louis pool icon (for lack of a better word) and instilled just a tad bit of heart into his son. Here is the story:

The first set- nothing goes Ryan's way and he loses 11-0. It was a complete wipe out and he never had a chance. Without hesitation, Ryan pulls a quarter out of his pocket and says call it, ready to play a second set. Now this act of confidence was the first of two points that Ryan made that day which swayed the final result of this story that you will read. I need to add that Ryan was betting his own money (maybe with a small corporation involved in part of the bet) and Chicago player was getting staked. The other player's backer puts up the cabbage for the second set and they carry on.

Ryan wins the second set 11-0 equaling the blanking he had just received. I'm sure the Chicago player and his backer's head were spinning thinking they had a sure 2000 win for the day before the start of the second set. Obviously Ryan had other intentions.

They carry on to a third set, again same wager. This time it is much closer as the score remains close throughout. Ryan gets to the hill first but the other player joins him on the next game and the score is tied 10-10. The other player's backer asks Ryan if he wants to start over and double the bet or increase the bet. Ryan answers without hesitation - no I want to play one game for 1000. The other player's backer asks him again trying to convince him - don't you want to start over??, my man is breaking. Again Ryan answers - no I want to play one game for 1000.

Now we have reached the second act that Ryan took that day to get paid. His brashness and gamble was more than player and his backer wanted. The other player's backer tells Ryan - we are not going to play one game for 1000. Ryan replies - well that is what I want to do. If you don't want to play and the money is obviously posted, you can buy out for 200. The backer agreed and hands Ryan 200. :eek:

Wow, he just lost 800
 

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
Wow, he just lost 800

This is what I thought too. Why let him off the hook for 800? He had him stuck for 1k if he won, granted he could have lost 1k himself but still. I think I would have rather played it out as intended to begin with. But who knows, I wasn't there and he was.:smile:
 

prad

Flip the coin
Silver Member
I always ask my opponent that if they will like to do win by 2 or just play one game if it comes to hill-hill.
 

brandoncook26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow, he just lost 800

This is what I thought too. Why let him off the hook for 800? He had him stuck for 1k if he won, granted he could have lost 1k himself but still. I think I would have rather played it out as intended to begin with. But who knows, I wasn't there and he was.:smile:

If I offered you a free $200 or a 50/50 shot to either win or lose $1000 which one would you take?

His willingness to play one game and take the shot at the grand is what earned him the $200. Much better deal to be guaranteed something than to walk away down a dime IMO
 

Atlatlien

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If I offered you a free $200 or a 50/50 shot to either win or lose $1000 which one would you take?

His willingness to play one game and take the shot at the grand is what earned him the $200. Much better deal to be guaranteed something than to walk away down a dime IMO

Agree. Don't start counting it til it's actually yours. I'm taking the 200 in this situation, although he could have said buy out for 400 to make them sweat the decision a little more.
 

Cdryden

Pool Addict
Silver Member
If I offered you a free $200 or a 50/50 shot to either win or lose $1000 which one would you take?

His willingness to play one game and take the shot at the grand is what earned him the $200. Much better deal to be guaranteed something than to walk away down a dime IMO

Agreed, generally a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.But given the circumstances I figured based on his actions leading up to that point, that he would go for the 1k.
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
If I offered you a free $200 or a 50/50 shot to either win or lose $1000 which one would you take?

His willingness to play one game and take the shot at the grand is what earned him the $200. Much better deal to be guaranteed something than to walk away down a dime IMO

Brandon gets it.

The other two don't.
 

fathomblue

Rusty Shackleford
Silver Member
Brandon gets it.

The other two don't.

Very good story. I love to hear stuff like that. I will counter with this, tho.....

.....don't you think it's just as important as to how much that $1000 means to someone? $1000 is a ton of money to me. So, yes, if I had played it like Ryan, $200 in hand is MUCH better than a 50/50 prop, as to whether I'm up a dime or not. However, it sounds as if Ryan feels like he's either going to win, or being a dime down doesn't bother him. Maybe he just pulls out another quarter and says "call it" again? He was down a dime earlier and it didn't bother him, right?

HOWEVER, what if $1000 isn't that big of a deal to the backer? What if he's holding $20K in his wallet......and that's just his weekend spending cash? Perhaps the only reason that he wanted to back it and jack it was to see more good pool and make a bigger score......because of the rush it brings.

I guess to frame it differently:

If I was hill-hill with a guy in a $50 set (Which is money to ME, but it's not gonna kill me to lose it. I just won't eat as well the next week.) and my opponent's backer says, "Let's back it and jack it. We'll double it up." Well, I'd have to think about it and analyze the situation.

1. First of all.......obviously, do I have the money, if I lose? Cuz I'm not going to fire an air barrel.

2. If I lose, is the guy going to quit winner? Have we made a prior agreement that this is the last set due to time constraints or whatever?

3. Does my opponent have that killer instinct that if he wins this, he's off to the races and my chances in the next set are nil, because he smells blood?

4. Do I not give a damn, because I have $500 of weekend cash in my pocket and $100ain't breakin' me? It might be just enough of a loss to piss me off, so I can grab a gear in the next set.

5. If I win, is my opponent, and the room, going to let me walk out with the cash without starting trouble?


In the OP's original story, I'd say it sounds to me like $1000 wasn't too much for Ryan in this situation and it meant more to the backer.

Perhaps, Ryan is a "student of human moves". ;)

I'd ALMOST agree that letting him off for $200 sounds cheap, but perhaps that's the mind game that Ryan played. That backer may have been convinced that his horse was probably going to lose, or if he won, Ryan was gonna flip the coin and make them do it all over again, because he didn't give a damn.

So, the backer might have thought, "Aw hell. We killed the guy 11-0. Then, without a thought, he flips it again and kills us 11-0. Now it's hill-hill and I don't know if he's mindfukin' us or what. This might be a bad game. I want out, yet I want to win, but I think this bastard may just want to flip it again. If I quit winner, I might be screwed around here. Hmm. Ok, $200 sounds pretty cheap to get out of what feels to be a bad match-up."

So, yea, looks like Ryan probably had a good feel for the situation.

The backer is probably still wondering what would have happened if they had just played that last game. :cool:
 

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
If Ryan was breaking I might consider this letting him off. With it being the other guy's break, no way. I feel bad for the other player who has a backer with no faith in his horse.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Ryan said he wanted to play one game for 1k then he should have said if you don't want to play then you forfeit the 1000.

I wouldn't have let them buy out. The money's posted so play it out.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Brandon gets it.

The other two don't.

I don't ether. Sure I can see taking the money but it's not exactly free money either. He played 20 games to get there.

Did they keep playing or was that it?

Profit is profit for sure but on the other hand you can look at as working for 40+ games to make $5 a game or taking a shot to make five times that.
 

curlyscues

we're watching
Silver Member
i could be in the minority in thinking this, but, this strikes me as a good player trying to get his opponent to say "i can;t beat you, you're better than me." and get paid while they say it.

M.C.
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
In 20+ years of being around pool, I have never seen in a match involving races where one player paid another player to quit. Maybe I am in the minority. If anything I have seen an argument and a power move is done where one player simply takes his money back and says what are you going to do about it.

Maybe I am not going to try to quantify everything by how much I got paid per game. The end result is what matters. Free $200.

I'll match up with any of you that what to try to read much more into this than it is --- we can negotiate the game and then if any set goes hill hill, I get the option of continue playing or you give me 20% of the wager and the set is over. If any of you go for that, I also have a nice bridge in Brooklyn that I inherited that I will also sell you.

By the way, the player Ryan was playing was no slouch - although rotation pool is not his normal game.
 

backplaying

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Ryan was breaking I might consider this letting him off. With it being the other guy's break, no way. I feel bad for the other player who has a backer with no faith in his horse.

Yea, it sure wasn't 50-50 with the other guy breaking hill hill. That was a 200 gift!
 

noMoreSchon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to live by the 'flip and double', slow down enough to keep them interested, then double the set. And everyone thinks its a good idea, and it is if you have your opponent scoped out to the point you know you have his #. I have never heard of buying out a set, settling on a % of the bet, but why not? If they buy that bet and you are the race horse in that situation then you can spill how you came out good because you can't beat the guy, and they let you off the "hook". And they will be back, and your hook is set. But a stakehorse not staking a $1000 bet? Don't like the action, flip for the geese who cares? This player did the right thing, If my player is in this game, and I pull up, what does that say about me, or my player? $200 and they will be back is a win for me...
 
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