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The offer still stands at any tournament I attend, and I'll rack them tight!
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Thumbs up The offer still stands at any tournament I attend, and I'll rack them tight! - 01-11-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikjary View Post
I hope that's not what the game has devolved into for the future players. Would any of us tolerate a card mechanic or dice mechanic? Why would it be ok in pool?

Is this just an American pastime or is it infecting everybody?

Best,
Mike
It's been okay, and even encouraged to be a "racking mechanic" - why on earth would you ever stream a match without a referee? We used to do it consistently in the 90s.

Click Here For an Example

There's many people that would jump at the opportunity to rack the games for champion players. I even offered to do it myself in Vegas, and it was refused.

go figure.......fyi - the offer still stands at any tournament I attend, and I'll rack them as tight as possible.


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01-11-2015, 07:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
It's been okay, and even encouraged to be a "racking mechanic" - why on earth would you ever stream a match without a referee? We used to do it consistently in the 90s.

Click Here For an Example

There's many people that would jump at the opportunity to rack the games for champion players. I even offered to do it myself in Vegas, and it was refused.

go figure.......fyi - the offer still stands at any tournament I attend, and I'll rack them as tight as possible.
It's like having pool table hackers. It's cool because they can and get away with it. While the rest of us sit and watch, not realizing it's happening until it affects us like a virus.

The break in rotation games is becoming a negative issue and trying to overcome the hackers is a drawback to the game's reputation. Pattern racking and rack manipulation take up tournament time, lessen the quality of play, and give the offending player an unfair advantage. I call this beating your opponent off of the table, not on it.

I rack only to give the tightest rack I can with the balls placed in a random order unless there are multiple money balls. I understand I may not receive a good rack in return. I think that's another form of manipulation, but at least I have the option to check the rack after a slug rack and remedy the situation!

Best,
Mike
  
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The key to "pro motion" is motion.
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Lightbulb The key to "pro motion" is motion. - 01-12-2015, 03:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikjary View Post
It's like having pool table hackers. It's cool because they can and get away with it. While the rest of us sit and watch, not realizing it's happening until it affects us like a virus.

The break in rotation games is becoming a negative issue and trying to overcome the hackers is a drawback to the game's reputation. Pattern racking and rack manipulation take up tournament time, lessen the quality of play, and give the offending player an unfair advantage. I call this beating your opponent off of the table, not on it.

I rack only to give the tightest rack I can with the balls placed in a random order unless there are multiple money balls. I understand I may not receive a good rack in return. I think that's another form of manipulation, but at least I have the option to check the rack after a slug rack and remedy the situation!

Best,
Mike
Yes, Mike, we are witnessing the rotation games at an all time low. Despite what some say, it's not the pro's fault at all, they just basically "follow orders" from the promoters. This has been a big mistake because they are now making about $2 an hour for all their work (on the average).

It's such a great game, it's sad to see it where it is now. I have the remedy, however, there's never any guarantees. I have been conditioning myself to work 8-12 a day (plus playing tournaments several times a week) so if it doesn't succeed it won't be from a lack of promotion. The key to "pro motion" is motion.

I liked reading that "Wrist Thread" today, it brought back a lot of memories. Did you notice that the same ones are still critics after 27 months, you'd think they'd at least try my techniques, but we both know they never will......their cups are overflowing.


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01-12-2015, 12:15 PM

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Originally Posted by ENGLISH! View Post
What ever happened to the Arimith pro rack, I think it was called.

The one where you set it over the balls & squeezed some handles to set the balls together.

I think it was called the Sardo 5000


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01-12-2015, 03:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
Yes, Mike, we are witnessing the rotation games at an all time low. Despite what some say, it's not the pro's fault at all, they just basically "follow orders" from the promoters. This has been a big mistake because they are now making about $2 an hour for all their work (on the average).

It's such a great game, it's sad to see it where it is now. I have the remedy, however, there's never any guarantees. I have been conditioning myself to work 8-12 a day (plus playing tournaments several times a week) so if it doesn't succeed it won't be from a lack of promotion. The key to "pro motion" is motion.

I liked reading that "Wrist Thread" today, it brought back a lot of memories. Did you notice that the same ones are still critics after 27 months, you'd think they'd at least try my techniques, but we both know they never will......their cups are overflowing.
I like some of the ideas Paul Schofield is implementing in his tourneys and bringing attention to what's broke with the break (see what I did there?). Players should never rack their own, but there's got to be a solution to giving your opponent a slug rack.

The only thing I can think of besides a neutral racker, is policing by the refs after complaints and penalizing obvious bad racking. And who's to say what constitutes a bad rack? Until the racking dilemma is fixed, we got a problem.

Keep on pro-moting! We need as much as we can get to get back on the radar. Sponsors need to believe we are worth their time. I think we also need to watch who is doing the promoting if we get a Pepsi, Ford, or other industry giant.

A bad promoter can either sign away the farm or be too tough to deal with in negotiations. Ultimately, that's up to the players and who they think will represent them the best.

The wrist thread has its detractors, that's for sure. And they may be anti-CJ, too. Anything you say or do is immediately something they don't agree with. At least they're consistent in their beliefs.

You create conversation in these forums, so an audience for your promotional ideas will be easy. You'll probably have to take some of it with a grain of salt and compare the Wrist thread fans with your critics to get a valid cross section of any ideas you may have. Just throw out the high score and the low score and average the middle. That gets rid of the fringe and puts you where you need to be.

Best,
Mike
  
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9 ball is becoming too much about the break.
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9 ball is becoming too much about the break. - 01-12-2015, 03:46 PM

Example:

This year's texas open : 1 or 2 players mastered the slow break, and they were almost impossible to beat. Their matches were very lopsided, even against top players.

The game needs to be modified so that the break becomes a smaller percentage of the outcome. I'm not saying that I know how to accomplish this, but just saying this is my opinion.

Also, at that tournament, i tried to copy what i was seeing on the break, and then proceeded to run a 7 pack. I didn't play well enough to win the whole thing, but my eyes were opened about the magic rack and it's limitations.

I like the idea of forced push after every break.


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. I want to play the real game, not participate in a "Rack(ing)Running Contest".
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Arrow . I want to play the real game, not participate in a "Rack(ing)Running Contest". - 01-13-2015, 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda4962 View Post
Example:

This year's texas open : 1 or 2 players mastered the slow break, and they were almost impossible to beat. Their matches were very lopsided, even against top players.

The game needs to be modified so that the break becomes a smaller percentage of the outcome. I'm not saying that I know how to accomplish this, but just saying this is my opinion.

Also, at that tournament, i tried to copy what i was seeing on the break, and then proceeded to run a 7 pack. I didn't play well enough to win the whole thing, but my eyes were opened about the magic rack and it's limitations.

I like the idea of forced push after every break.
I was there, but didn't play. After going down and watching I decided then and there that I would never play in another tournament using a racking template. Making a dead ball every time in every match was the last straw for me. I want to play the real game, not participate in a "Rack(ing)Running Contest".


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A little more info….
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A little more info…. - 01-13-2015, 02:47 PM

At the Texas open, I tried to talk to the tournament director about this issue, but it was received harshly. I was in favor of the magic rack, but not the slow break that everyone was using. He stated that he didn't care what the players liked or didn't like….

He " only wanted the matches to be completed as quickly as possible ". Maybe he has a point, but when one works on their game for a lifetime,,… a player might see it differently.


See you at the Derby.


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Talk about timing......
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Thumbs up Talk about timing...... - 01-13-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
It's been okay, and even encouraged to be a "racking mechanic" - why on earth would you ever stream a match without a referee? We used to do it consistently in the 90s.

Click Here For an Example

There's many people that would jump at the opportunity to rack the games for champion players. I even offered to do it myself in Vegas, and it was refused.

go figure.......fyi - the offer still stands at any tournament I attend, and I'll rack them as tight as possible.
That is a cool link with great timing.

Vivian Villareal is flying into New Orleans and will be at our local pool room, Lacy's Cue, in Chalmette, Louisiana for a few days.

JoeyA


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The best way to do this is create as much luck as possible, and as little strategy.
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Arrow The best way to do this is create as much luck as possible, and as little strategy. - 01-14-2015, 01:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda4962 View Post
At the Texas open, I tried to talk to the tournament director about this issue, but it was received harshly. I was in favor of the magic rack, but not the slow break that everyone was using. He stated that he didn't care what the players liked or didn't like….

He " only wanted the matches to be completed as quickly as possible ". Maybe he has a point, but when one works on their game for a lifetime,,… a player might see it differently.


See you at the Derby.
Yes, the rules and equipment (jump cues, magic racks, fast cloth) in pool these days evolved from the desire to speed up play and fill up the tournaments. The best way to do this is create as much luck as possible, and as little strategy. This hasn't turned out so well for the Pros, the leagues are doing fine.


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01-21-2015, 10:35 AM

I skim-read this thread so if I missed something, please bear this in mind.

This thread seems to hover around the issue of how to rack a rack for your advantage or the opponents disadvantage. "What if" the following variable was added to a rack.

I play in local 8 ball bar leagues but the following is for any game where a rack is used.

When racking, does the head ball absolutely need to be be perfectly placed on the spot or could the head ball be place somewhere over the spot?

This would place the rack somewhere a little off center to the table but not askew to the tables square.
Could/would this open a new variable as how the rack opens up on the break or just a means for the breaker to start issues?

I'm guessing this will get more Nays than Yays.
  
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01-21-2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_M View Post
I skim-read this thread so if I missed something, please bear this in mind.

This thread seems to hover around the issue of how to rack a rack for your advantage or the opponents disadvantage. "What if" the following variable was added to a rack.

I play in local 8 ball bar leagues but the following is for any game where a rack is used.

When racking, does the head ball absolutely need to be be perfectly placed on the spot or could the head ball be place somewhere over the spot?

This would place the rack somewhere a little off center to the table but not askew to the tables square.
Could/would this open a new variable as how the rack opens up on the break or just a means for the breaker to start issues?

I'm guessing this will get more Nays than Yays.
When I rack, I move up and down the table, but never off center. The back of the rack aligns with the middle diamond on the short rail, so the rack would be angled if the head ball was to either side of the center spot.

Turning the rack has always been a no-no and easy to spot. So, I'd say not side movement and yes, to front and back positioning.

Best,
Mike

My dad grew up in Waukegan.

Last edited by Mikjary; 01-21-2015 at 07:59 PM.
  
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01-23-2015, 08:38 PM

Watching the Big Foot and they are fingering the one every rack.. Can't believe they allow that
  
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15 cops raided the place because of a poker/dice game in the back
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Red face 15 cops raided the place because of a poker/dice game in the back - 01-24-2015, 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikjary View Post
When I rack, I move up and down the table, but never off center. The back of the rack aligns with the middle diamond on the short rail, so the rack would be angled if the head ball was to either side of the center spot.

Turning the rack has always been a no-no and easy to spot. So, I'd say not side movement and yes, to front and back positioning.

Best,
Mike

My dad grew up in Waukegan.
Is that Waukegan Illiniois?

I went there to play "Boston Joey" at the Homestead Bar back in the early 80s. Someday I'll tell you that story, it could very well be featured in a movie.

Just a portion of the story included about 15 cops raiding the place because of a poker/dice game in the back.....the rest I'll save for a personal conversation.


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01-24-2015, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
Is that Waukegan Illiniois?

I went there to play "Boston Joey" at the Homestead Bar back in the early 80s. Someday I'll tell you that story, it could very well be featured in a movie.

Just a portion of the story included about 15 cops raiding the place because of a poker/dice game in the back.....the rest I'll save for a personal conversation.
The Homestead...sounds familiar. I may have been through there a few times. Can't remember exactly when.

Seems like there was another bar out that way in the 80's that had some action, too. Maybe it'll come to me...

Best,
Mike
  
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