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Reload this Page Rail cloth install without Dado
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SNO
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03-14-2015, 02:39 PM

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Originally Posted by RackemBilliards View Post
From your pics and descriptions would say that someone at some point installed the bed cloth by gluing the whole surface. That's disappointing. Was the whole bed cloth glued when you took it apart? That backed cloth that was on it may have actually helped you, as I think it would be even worse with a regular woolen (fuzzy) cloth. Normally, you could tell the top from the bottom because the slate would be rounded a bit in the pocket cutouts on the top. Those don't appear to be, and you might be able to use the other side. Sometimes it's not machined the same, though and you'd have to check it over. One pic appears to show a gouge or deep scratch and there may be more. Even if you had to fill those with bondo, that might be easier. Getting that glue off of the top will be a project, and I'd quit scraping. Maybe Glen knows of a good brushable remover for large areas similar to paint stripper? Whichever side you use, I'd check out another table to see the roundness of the slate in the pockets, and match that with a file and sandpaper. Neither of the spray glues will work for the rubber. If you use the fastbond for the rubber and cloth, there won't be a bunch left, and you'll find another use for it at some point. I'm using it to patch an air mattress today-it's good stuff. Just my thoughts. Good luck!
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.
  
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03-14-2015, 10:33 PM

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Originally Posted by SNO View Post
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.
I think it was. It would have loosened up a bit with play over the last 15 years, but if it seemed glued at all, I would expect it was. I hope someone chimes in here and tells us what the best thing to do is when someone before you glues the entire slate surface. Oregon and Texas can't be the only places where this stuff happens haha. Glen and Gordon were able to remove old spray glue pretty easily around the edges (easy for me to say) with the citrus spray remover. If that's not working on yours, I guess you have to consider that if they didn't know enough to not glue the surface, they probably didn't know what glue to use. It could be anything, is what I mean. I'm not sure how much value it has, but if you really want to know what I would do in your spot, here it is: barring some other removal method, I'd spray the entire surface with the citrus remover. After waiting a bit, I'd scrape the surface carefully, making sure to remove only glue and not getting into the slate. Then I would let it dry. Then I would make one of Glen's sanding tools using a 2 foot level with sandpaper attatched so that I could sand as flat and level as possible. I'd sand the surface with it and decide if I was happy with that. If not, I'd look at the other side. Then I would continue per the simonis dvds. All of that assumes, of course that I couldn't talk Glen into working on it. Which is what I would try first.


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Acetone - 03-14-2015, 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNO View Post
Thank you for the detailed response. Yea there's a gouge or two that will need to be "bondo-ed". I'll check the pockets for a rounded edge when I get home. Hopefully there is some sort of stripper that works because goof off and the 3m spray are working on the edges but not on the playing surface. Worst case scenario and there's no stripper or solution, would flipping it be better than scraping the whole surface?
Idk if it makes any difference but the cloth appeared to be backed cloth. It had a canvas like backing that was on the slate side. It wasn't as glued down as the edges which Is why I was second guessing if it was glued down in the first place.

Best stuff I have used is acetone a little at a time lots of elbow grease Scotch Brite pads lots of them.

As far as the pictures go hard to tell by what you have posted, take a picture of the pocet area. Because as has been said before the pictures you have posted are not very helpful, not trying to detract from the help you seek just letting you know that if the pictures were better it would help you get the answers you seek.


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03-15-2015, 08:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Poolhalljunkie View Post
Best stuff I have used is acetone a little at a time lots of elbow grease Scotch Brite pads lots of them.

As far as the pictures go hard to tell by what you have posted, take a picture of the pocet area. Because as has been said before the pictures you have posted are not very helpful, not trying to detract from the help you seek just letting you know that if the pictures were better it would help you get the answers you seek.
Thank you sir. I hope these pictures are to specifications, and theat they clear up what I'm trying to say about the top and bottom of the slate. The FIRST picture is the top playing surface corner pocket, the rest are of the bottom of the slate. Notice the difference in the slate coloring than the rest of the pictures that have previously been posted. I am tempted to just use this side, and file/round the pockets as mentioned. For what it's worth both the top and bottom sides have very little filing/rounding to the pocket openings, nothing like there was on a 3piece slate table I used to have.
Thank you
http://m.imgur.com/a/z8BVa
  
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03-16-2015, 11:30 AM

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Originally Posted by SNO View Post
Thank you sir. I hope these pictures are to specifications, and theat they clear up what I'm trying to say about the top and bottom of the slate. The FIRST picture is the top playing surface corner pocket, the rest are of the bottom of the slate. Notice the difference in the slate coloring than the rest of the pictures that have previously been posted. I am tempted to just use this side, and file/round the pockets as mentioned. For what it's worth both the top and bottom sides have very little filing/rounding to the pocket openings, nothing like there was on a 3piece slate table I used to have.
Thank you
http://m.imgur.com/a/z8BVa
I have used acetone and zip strip before to clean a slate and both have worked. as far as flipping over slate, there are usually groves ground into the playing surface of the slate to help keep the cloth in place. if you have them you will now it and that is your top. You have to use that side.to get the best results. i myself would stop scraping if i where you. if you can't get it off with acetone and scotch brites then you are doing it wrong. It shouldn't take scraping to get it off unless you re being impatient.

As far as super 77 don't use it. I have 5 tables i have to go repair because i used super 77. Apparently they changed the formula and every table i have done with it since, the felt has come loose. I guess they sell the original formula under super 77 classic now but I'm not going to chance it. i will just go get fastbond 10 (scotch weld 10). A friend of mine who also does tables is having the same problems.


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03-16-2015, 12:51 PM

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Originally Posted by cammel8 View Post
I have used acetone and zip strip before to clean a slate and both have worked. as far as flipping over slate, there are usually groves ground into the playing surface of the slate to help keep the cloth in place. if you have them you will now it and that is your top. You have to use that side.to get the best results. i myself would stop scraping if i where you. if you can't get it off with acetone and scotch brites then you are doing it wrong. It shouldn't take scraping to get it off unless you re being impatient.

As far as super 77 don't use it. I have 5 tables i have to go repair because i used super 77. Apparently they changed the formula and every table i have done with it since, the felt has come loose. I guess they sell the original formula under super 77 classic now but I'm not going to chance it. i will just go get fastbond 10 (scotch weld 10). A friend of mine who also does tables is having the same problems.
ill give acetone a try, but mineral spirits, goof off and 3m adhesive remover didnt really make a difference. i was assuming that both sides would be like the bottom side (the latest pictures) like on a traditional 3 piece slate table where both faces are smooth. If thats the case and I am just scraping the grooves off, would it be best to do the acetone route, and use the origional top side, or just use the bottom side? I ask because i already scraped almost a quarter of the table and I do not want it to affect play. The bottom side seems to be in relatively good condition, aside from the glue on the edges. Ill return the super 77 and use fastbond 10.
Thank you
  
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03-17-2015, 08:31 AM

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Originally Posted by SNO View Post
ill give acetone a try, but mineral spirits, goof off and 3m adhesive remover didnt really make a difference. i was assuming that both sides would be like the bottom side (the latest pictures) like on a traditional 3 piece slate table where both faces are smooth. If thats the case and I am just scraping the grooves off, would it be best to do the acetone route, and use the origional top side, or just use the bottom side? I ask because i already scraped almost a quarter of the table and I do not want it to affect play. The bottom side seems to be in relatively good condition, aside from the glue on the edges. Ill return the super 77 and use fastbond 10.
Thank you
if you have scraped the groves off then yes ui guess flipping it would technically be better but its not the easiest to remove the grooves so more than likely your fine


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03-17-2015, 10:06 AM

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Originally Posted by cammel8 View Post
if you have scraped the groves off then yes ui guess flipping it would technically be better but its not the easiest to remove the grooves so more than likely your fine
Thank you. I basically scraped the first quarter till it was smooth under the impression it was just glue. May be hard to tell from these pics I posted earlier but everything light grey is smooth like the bottom of the slate, while the darker part has the texture to it.http://m.imgur.com/a/bQVtR
  
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03-17-2015, 10:57 AM

The grooves are a result of the manufacturing process.

The playing surface is ground flat. The grooves are left by the grinding wheel. They serve no technical purpose.

Without seeing your table, in person, I have to guess, like others have said, that someone may have glued the entire playing surface. While it would be nice if you could remove all of the glue residue, it may not be absolutely necessary.. I would suggest that you just take a razor or utility blade, and give a quick scraping of the whole surface (hold the blade almost perpendicular to the surface, and just scrape back and forth). Focus on the high build-up areas, and just knock the top layer off the rest of it. It looks like you may have put some deep gouges in the surface, so you'll want to address those. Keep in mind, if you decide to use beeswax, using the torch may melt that glue residue, and make a big mess.


Watch this video, to help you better understand how slate is processed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zez5kWsKvIo

Keep in mind, not all pool table manufacturers use the same process. I have to guess, not all table manufacturers may put as much care into surfacing the backside of the slate.. I have seen some slate with quite noticeable surface imperfections, on the backside.

Good luck.


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03-17-2015, 02:08 PM

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Originally Posted by bradsh98 View Post
The grooves are a result of the manufacturing process.

The playing surface is ground flat. The grooves are left by the grinding wheel. They serve no technical purpose.

Without seeing your table, in person, I have to guess, like others have said, that someone may have glued the entire playing surface. While it would be nice if you could remove all of the glue residue, it may not be absolutely necessary.. I would suggest that you just take a razor or utility blade, and give a quick scraping of the whole surface (hold the blade almost perpendicular to the surface, and just scrape back and forth). Focus on the high build-up areas, and just knock the top layer off the rest of it. It looks like you may have put some deep gouges in the surface, so you'll want to address those. Keep in mind, if you decide to use beeswax, using the torch may melt that glue residue, and make a big mess.


Watch this video, to help you better understand how slate is processed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zez5kWsKvIo

Keep in mind, not all pool table manufacturers use the same process. I have to guess, not all table manufacturers may put as much care into surfacing the backside of the slate.. I have seen some slate with quite noticeable surface imperfections, on the backside.

Good luck.
Okay so the grooves arent cut in to help hold the cloth? Basically the "grooves" on the top are like a very tiny grid. Which makes me think it was formed from the backed cloth and glue. If you are talking about the giant arched grooves I can see what you mean. I guess basically it comes down to me evaluating both sides of slate and picking the one that's in better shape. I'll take a look at the video when I get home. Next step is to get all the glue off the edges and vertical part, then I will evaluated my slate faces to determine the most playable side and go from there. You guys have been a tremendous amount of help and knowledge and I appreciate it. I'll no doubt have some more questions as I go but ill be sure to try and do a search to make sure it hasn't been covered before.
Thank you.
  
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Table - 03-17-2015, 02:19 PM

The machine marks are on top, they could of very easily made the top smooth. The grooves do serve a purpose, they hold chalk dust so it won't build up under the cloth. Like little gutters'



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03-18-2015, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by dontlitethat View Post
The machine marks are on top, they could of very easily made the top smooth. The grooves do serve a purpose, they hold chalk dust so it won't build up under the cloth. Like little gutters'



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I'm a little confused here Rob. Are these grooves specifically made for that purpose, or is it just a side affect of the slate process and it happens to work that way? When I did a 3 piece table the only grooves were giant arched grooves that were from the grinding process I assume. On this little bar box the grooves look like a micro grid, like the backing on the cloth. If the former is the case then I think it's safe to say that my "grid grooves" are just glue and anon print left from the backed cloth
  
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