Diamond Systems, How to Test a Table, Diamond Table Banking Short

dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
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Silver Member
Check out my new video that demonstrates important diamond systems for aiming kick and bank shots:

Kick and Bank Shot Diamond Systems, and Pool Table Differences

The video also looks at how to evaluate a new or an unfamiliar table with a collection of standard test shots. To use the systems effectively, you must be able to make adjustments based on how a particular table plays.

The following tables are tested and compared in the video:
- 9' Brunswick Gold Crown V
- 9' Red Label Diamond
- 9' Olhauusen (previously owned by Robert Byrne)
- 7' Valley "bar box"

As expected, everything goes short on the Diamond, but the systems work well on the other tables.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Last edited:
jtompilot

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Check out my new video that demonstrates important diamond systems for aiming kick and bank shots:


The video also looks at how to evaluate a new or an unfamiliar table with a collection of standard test shots. To use the systems effectively, you must be able to make adjustments based on how a particular table plays.

The following tables are tested and compared in the video:
- 9' Brunswick Gold Crown V
- 9' Red Label Diamond
- 9' Olhauusen (previously owned by Robert Byrne)
- 7' Valley "bar box"

As expected, everything goes short on the Diamond, but the systems work well on the other tables.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks. If only you had the Blue label included. My general observation is it’s close to the GC.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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jtompilot said:
Thanks. If only you had the Blue label included. My general observation is it’s close to the GC.
Click to expand...
The next time I get access to a Blue Label Diamond, I will run it through the same set of tests.

In the mean time, if you or anybody else has convenient access, maybe you can do the shots in the video on a standard unmodified Blue Label and report back.

Thanks,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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garczar said:
They're very close. Light yrs. better than the old RedLabels.
Click to expand...
I've heard this, but I've also heard that the Blue Label Diamonds also bank a little short. Could somebody with convenient access to an unmodified Blue Label with cloth in typical pool-hall condition (not brand new) do the test shots in the video and report back with results?

Thanks,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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BRussell said:
What is the reason those Diamonds go short? Stiffer rails?
Click to expand...
This is the best explanation I have heard:

The cushion noses are lower than normal and are angled slightly down due to the bevel of the sub-rail cushion backing.

But I have not verified this.

Regards,
Dave
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
This is the best explanation I have heard:

The cushion noses are lower than normal and are angled slightly down due to the bevel of the sub-rail cushion backing.

But I have not verified this.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

I AGREE DR DAVE. This is what i have found to be true. I recently did some testing and found that using championship tour edition k55 are the best replacement cushion for red and black label diamonds. Real king cobra told me this to start with. I decided to do my own tests. I mocked up these cushions and measured them: diamond black k55, artemis, superspeed and the original championship fleetwood k55 that came on black and early red label diamonds. The fleetwoods nose height were 1 1/2" and so were the champ tour edition k55 , everything else was 1 7/16". The table owner us still breaking in tbe cloth and cushions, but, after playjng on it for a couple hours i feel i made the right decision. I will update my findings in a couple of months. The table did not play to springy ,but, banks were going long, i attribute that to the new simonis 760. Just my opinions, based on research and playing on the table,

Trent from toledo
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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trentfromtoledo said:
I AGREE DR DAVE. This is what i have found to be true. I recently did some testing and found that using championship tour edition k55 are the best replacement cushion for red and black label diamonds. Real king cobra told me this to start with. I decided to do my own tests. I mocked up these cushions and measured them: diamond black k55, artemis, superspeed and the original championship fleetwood k55 that came on black and early red label diamonds. The fleetwoods nose height were 1 1/2" and so were the champ tour edition k55 , everything else was 1 7/16". The table owner us still breaking in tbe cloth and cushions, but, after playjng on it for a couple hours i feel i made the right decision. I will update my findings in a couple of months. The table did not play to springy ,but, banks were going long, i attribute that to the new simonis 760. Just my opinions, based on research and playing on the table,

Trent from toledo
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info.

Regards,
Dave
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Based on everything i've learned here its not the nose-height that's the issue but the downward-angle of the cushion tops. On Blue labels(based on RKC work) they lowered the rear of the cushion. Problem solved. Blue's play great.(So do modified Reds).
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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garczar said:
Based on everything i've learned here its not the nose-height that's the issue but the downward-angle of the cushion tops. On Blue labels(based on RKC work) they lowered the rear of the cushion. Problem solved. Blue's play great.(So do modified Reds).
Click to expand...
I'll try to test out an unmodified Blue Label when I get a chance. There might be some in Denver. I don't know of any in Fort Collins, where I live.

I also plan to change the Simonis 860 HR on my Olhaussen soon. As soon as I do, I'll test out the new cloth with the same set of shots (in the video) to see how different it plays.

Regards,
Dave
 
B

bbb

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fwiw
on gold crowns if i hit around diamond 2 (table variance ) that will work
for the corner 5 3 rail kick coming from the opposite corner
on blue label diamond i have to aim at around 1 1/2
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
garczar said:
Based on everything i've learned here its not the nose-height that's the issue but the downward-angle of the cushion tops. On Blue labels(based on RKC work) they lowered the rear of the cushion. Problem solved. Blue's play great.(So do modified Reds).
Click to expand...

Yes, The back of the cushion is to high and with the lower nose height = springy and bank short.

From rkc's advice and my research, using the Championship Tour Edition K55 Cushions is the right choice. the nose height is a little higher at about 1 1/2" and seems to play better in my opinion. I think this it's because the higher cushion nose matches the back height of the cushions better. "Not all k55 cushions are created equal" RKC quote! As I said in my last post, i will report on my findings down the road when the new Simonis 760 is more broken in and there is less "sliding" around.

Trent from Toledo :thumbup:
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Unmodified Blue Label Diamonds bank great.

It's not the cushions for most, lol.... it's that deeeeepppp shelf.

Ball that rattle badly on a diamond, well, they fall easily on most all other equipment when pocket size is close to same.
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
jrctherake said:
Unmodified Blue Label Diamonds bank great.

It's not the cushions for most, lol.... it's that deeeeepppp shelf.

Ball that rattle badly on a diamond, well, they fall easily on most all other equipment when pocket size is close to same.
Click to expand...

There is no need to modify a Blue label, it is excellent from the factory.
The shelves are DEEEEEEP for sure JrctheRake!
I almost wish Brunswick would extend the shelves on their new tables,
Diamond aint going no where and the deeper shelves are here to stay!

Trent from Toledo

00a0a_6zT1mhAXsrV_600x450.jpg
 
J

jrctherake

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
trentfromtoledo said:
There is no need to modify a Blue label, it is excellent from the factory.
The shelves are DEEEEEEP for sure JrctheRake!
I almost wish Brunswick would extend the shelves on their new tables,
Diamond aint going no where and the deeper shelves are here to stay!

Trent from Toledo

00a0a_6zT1mhAXsrV_600x450.jpg
Click to expand...

I agree!

IMO, most all other tables play "to easy", even with smaller pockets.
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
Check out my new video that demonstrates important diamond systems for aiming kick and bank shots:

Kick and Bank Shot Diamond Systems, and Pool Table Differences

The video also looks at how to evaluate a new or an unfamiliar table with a collection of standard test shots. To use the systems effectively, you must be able to make adjustments based on how a particular table plays.

The following tables are tested and compared in the video:
- 9' Brunswick Gold Crown V
- 9' Red Label Diamond
- 9' Olhauusen (previously owned by Robert Byrne)
- 7' Valley "bar box"

As expected, everything goes short on the Diamond, but the systems work well on the other tables.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...
Does somebody have convenient access to an unmodified factory-built "Blue Label" Diamond? If so, please consider trying out the set of test shots starting at the 6:42 point in the video to see how they play. Even better, please consider posting a video on YouTube.

I hope to test a "Blue Label" Diamond in the future when I can get access, but it might take a while.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
This is the best explanation I have heard:

The cushion noses are lower than normal and are angled slightly down due to the bevel of the sub-rail cushion backing.

But I have not verified this.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
I thought a higher cushion nose would shorten banks - because hitting higher on the ball would increase cross-table after-rebound masse...?

pj
chgo
 
trentfromtoledo

trentfromtoledo

8onthebreaktoledo
Silver Member
What do you mean and un-modified blue label? The only modification I could see would be a sub rail extension to tighten the pockets. You also did not specify what size table?? the 7' and 8' come with Black Diamond K55 cushions and the 9' get the Artemis Intercontinental 66 cushions ( also k55). No mod needed on rails on any of the different size models. I am sure someone on here has one in their home or a local pool hall has one. None in Toledo that are publicly available unfortunately :( I have installed a few 7' for clients here, no 9'.

Trent from Toledo

dr_dave said:
Does somebody have convenient access to an unmodified factory-built "Blue Label" Diamond? If so, please consider trying out the set of test shots starting at the 6:42 point in the video to see how they play. Even better, please consider posting a video on YouTube.

I hope to test a "Blue Label" Diamond in the future when I can get access, but it might take a while.

Thanks,
Dave
Click to expand...
 
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