Bank pool... Systems or Rote?

ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bug's instructional video's are on youtube too

Banger said:
Speaking of Bugs, here you go......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAlRHRJidaM
Click to expand...


Edit: Apologies for the duplication Banger. Your link first seemed to point to five minutes of Bugs when I clicked on it. Now it goes to the same video I am talking about. A glitch with my machine I guess.

Bugs' instructional video is on youtube too. Hours of Bugs shooting banks. I suspect the commercial value of the video is almost zero even if somebody is still selling them. Bugs was a great banker, his video delivery is very dry.

I read Freddy the Beard's book years ago. While I bank by feel, working the shots in Freddy's book, 99 shots I believe, sure helped my banking. I wish it was spiral bound to be easier to use at the table.

One of the easiest banks in pool is the "pass by" or bypass shot. Banking a ball near the rail cross side when the cue ball is up table and the corner blocked. The induced spin does most or all of the work and the side pocket plays huge coming almost straight at it. Many players overcomplicate that shot and think it is hard to make. When it is understood it is hard to miss. Another favorite is the crossover bank when the object ball is a few inches off the head rail playing one pocket. Another easy shot, no adjustment needed to clear the cue ball, it does it on it's own.

I never was a great banker but I was a decent one. Never bought into the idea that all cuts were easier than all banks.

Hu
 
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ChopStick

ChopStick

Unsane Poster
Silver Member
Banking with the Beard and Banks that don't go but do, books and DVD, by Freddy Bentivegna in my opinion are the definitive works on the subject. Enough information in there to keep you busy for years. They are a must have as a starting point if you want to understand how banks work.
 
uwate

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
I recommend banking with the beard to get an understanding of what is "happening under the hood" of bank shots. There is alot of nuances to bank that have to do with using draw, follow, english, speed and throw and freddy goes over the different variables nicely.

After that though, you have to practice and practice. You might find that its your favorite game. I know I did. I just played 7 hrs of it yesterday. A friend of mine in miami loves the game too and we spar regularly. I started recording some of our matches to try to study weaknesses and improve. I recommend doing this even if you keep the videos private and use youtube just as a way to archive your matches.

Here is a bank practice game we use to practice multi rail banks. it looks a bit stupid with all the ball in hands but its alot of fun to play and it really does help to learn multi rail banks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2XJaAwaBX8
 
ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Bugs

jay helfert said:
I like it, seeing Bugs makes it all worthwhile. He was legendary because he was a winner, coming up with shots like this if he needed to win a game. Take a good look at the hard shots on tape #3. No one could do this any better than Bugs, than or now!
Click to expand...



I would like to know what his eyesight was even when he was up in years. The accuracy with which he hit many of those shots not only required knowledge and a great stroke, they required eyes that would put an eagle to shame just to see the spots he needed to hit so precisely.

I had sampled the video when I did mention how dry he was. Not that bad especially after he got more comfortable with the camera. "This shot is tougher than eleven mother-in-laws, ... including mine!"

Some other comments too mentioning who he used the shot to clinch a victory against, he said making one shot almost got him ran out of town!

Great stuff, and a lot of banks mortals can make too. Some of Bug's banks, I might be one in twenty on with some practice. While I like watching other people make them I try to ignore shots that I think I am less than one in three or four to make and I don't shoot those unless I think they will make a major swing. Freeze the cue ball and the object ball on the same rail, then bank the ball! I see how it was done but I could wear out a few cubes of chalk and a tip trying to make that shot I believe, and it wasn't as hard as some he shot!

Hu
 
JazzyJeff87

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
uwate said:
I recommend banking with the beard to get an understanding of what is "happening under the hood" of bank shots. There is alot of nuances to bank that have to do with using draw, follow, english, speed and throw and freddy goes over the different variables nicely.

After that though, you have to practice and practice. You might find that its your favorite game. I know I did. I just played 7 hrs of it yesterday. A friend of mine in miami loves the game too and we spar regularly. I started recording some of our matches to try to study weaknesses and improve. I recommend doing this even if you keep the videos private and use youtube just as a way to archive your matches.

Here is a bank practice game we use to practice multi rail banks. it looks a bit stupid with all the ball in hands but its alot of fun to play and it really does help to learn multi rail banks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2XJaAwaBX8
Click to expand...

So are you the fellow who’s wife was trying to get him to do house work, or the one who talked her out of it so the pool could continue? Either way you made some nice banks.
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
bstroud said:
Eddy Taylor didn't use a system and he was the best there ever was.

Bank takes lots of practice and experience.

Bill stroud
Click to expand...

Bill is 110% but someone is alway hoping to become a master of some skill with no effort. There are no magic pills, Cues, or systems.
 
Gunn_Slinger

Gunn_Slinger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the 60' , I talked to Eddie Taylor a couple of times. He came to a room called Guys & Dolls in suitland maryland. The owner was a good friend of Eddies and staked him for whatever. Eddie told me that knew 2 rail system and 3 rail system as a place to start. But for 1 rail banks, he said, 'shoot a million of them' ! He said that you have to adjust any system or 1 rail banks due to wet/dry conditions , every table banks a little different,
Different OB's , different CB's, etc. I got to see him play many times. Never seen anyone
play as he did ! The closet I saw personally was Truman Hogue. He came looking for
Eddie. He found him a few days at Beenie's room. He didn't know who he was playing.
Eddie won, but not easily. Truman was a great banker. It took the best ever to beat him.
I'de be just fine if it took Eddie to beat me !! lol
Banks is a great game. Very little luck. Called pocket, called rails. Can't luck a bank.
My favorite game.
ps
There is a lot of strategy in 9 ball banks that most players don't seem to know.
Great game !
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I use a little bit of dis and a little bit of dat.

I've played for so long, I can usually see the angle, or pretty close to it, by just looking at the object ball and the angle it needs to travel off of the rail in order to find the pocket. Then you find the contact point on the object ball that will send it to that point on the rail with the cue ball.

Of course, speed, English, the weather, luck, and a few other things come into play, but that is the general system I use.

I do use the diamonds as a visual reference to backup my calculations if the shot is kind of tricky.
 
Poolhall60561

Poolhall60561

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Study and use systems for the first 1/2 million shots, them go rote for the next 1/2 million. By then you will have it.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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ShootingArts said:
I would like to know what his eyesight was even when he was up in years. The accuracy with which he hit many of those shots not only required knowledge and a great stroke, they required eyes that would put an eagle to shame just to see the spots he needed to hit so precisely.

I had sampled the video when I did mention how dry he was. Not that bad especially after he got more comfortable with the camera. "This shot is tougher than eleven mother-in-laws, ... including mine!"

Some other comments too mentioning who he used the shot to clinch a victory against, he said making one shot almost got him ran out of town!

Great stuff, and a lot of banks mortals can make too. Some of Bug's banks, I might be one in twenty on with some practice. While I like watching other people make them I try to ignore shots that I think I am less than one in three or four to make and I don't shoot those unless I think they will make a major swing. Freeze the cue ball and the object ball on the same rail, then bank the ball! I see how it was done but I could wear out a few cubes of chalk and a tip trying to make that shot I believe, and it wasn't as hard as some he shot!

Hu
Click to expand...

I'm sure they had to do more than one "take" on many of these shots. Even Bugs couldn't make them all on the first try. Bugs was a big, athletic looking guy who probably played sports in high school. I never knew anything about his past and i didn't know him that well either. Not like Freddie, that's for sure. Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh. :eek:
 
uwate

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
JazzyJeff87 said:
So are you the fellow who’s wife was trying to get him to do house work, or the one who talked her out of it so the pool could continue? Either way you made some nice banks.
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I was the one getting out of stuff to do lol. Actually from both her and my buddy Jimmy, who is the guy in the red shirt. He was trying to get me to go outdoors and go fishing on Sunday. Miami is incredible weather right now. Sunday it was sunny and in the low 70s. Fishing? beach? biking? nope, just bank pool all day.

just also want to add in that my buddy plays pretty sporty. Right out of the gates on sunday, in the first set he runs 3 and out the first game, then four and out in game two and then he breaks and ran another 3. Tough action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oprfntm49Q8&t
 
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uwate

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
Freddie told me once that even his family didn't know he hustled/played pool for a living. He never talked about it at home! Crazy huh. :eek:
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that is so crazy! I knew he never owned a cue and just used whatever someone would lend him every time he played. Makes me wonder how he ever explained all the nights in the pool room to his family.
 
measureman

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I watched a YouTube video with a very good player explaining how he calculates a long table 1 rail kick shot.
Half way through the math I got lost.
He adjusted his calculation for worn cloth and humidity.
When he finally shot the kick he missed the object ball by six inches.
I shut the video off and figured i could do better by dead reckoning.
I bank by feel.
 
grindz

grindz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
measureman said:
I watched a YouTube video with a very good player explaining how he calculates a long table 1 rail kick shot.
Half way through the math I got lost.
He adjusted his calculation for worn cloth and humidity.
When he finally shot the kick he missed the object ball by six inches.
I shut the video off and figured i could do better by dead reckoning.
I bank by feel.
Click to expand...


I feel the same way as you, but the flip side of that is that there are people whose minds ‘dwell’ in the more scientific mode and that is how they come to visualize their shots. I have a friend who studied the Beard’s books, and practiced for years on them, that still ‘calculates’ every shot and rarely misses by much. It helps that his Olhausen table has the rails they use, as I feel they are the most accurate I have ever played.

I can only commend those who can remember, and use all the systems and measurements..... I am surely not one of them.

Td
 
B

bstroud

Deceased
Truman was a great bank pool player.

Even he would admit Taylor was the best.

You would have to travel with him as I did to really understand how well he banked.

He showed me a proposition shot that he bet on that I tried many times.

Put a ball on the second diamond at the balk line and bank the ball in all 6 pockets without a miss. He could do it almost every time. Scary.

He used speed and Center ball to bank unless he needed English for position.

He knew every bank that was possible and every bank that was not.

Bill Stroud
 
S

southernfried

Registered
Quick disclosure. I make no claim to being an expert. For one rail banks I use a system learned from Jimmy Reid which is a "basic divide by two" calculation. Tor Lowery has some videos out that shows this system and more. You can find free videos by both Jimmy Reid and Tor Lowery on YouTube that explain the banking system. To me, it is much simpler and easier to use then "mirror," "M&M," "extended rail,' etc. Like several other replies, I agree any system gets you in the ball park and experience teaches you what adjustments you make from there. Every table and every player is different and only time and practice will improve your shot making. Bottom line, the best system is the one that works for you. Check 'em out, then decide.
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Freddy the Beard had some DVD's I believe, they were good foundation material. Problem even with instructional material is you need to go over it many time to absorbe the material being taught. Them because of variances from table to table, clean to dirty balls, RH (relative humidity) tempeture in a room, etc. If your experenced you can make the adjustment fast for conditions. Thus experience, and amount of practing of the banking skill is the key component IMHO.

I always had to laught when I use to do a lot of competitive long range Black Powder Shoting, it was like most sports. The same people alway did well. They in many case did not have the latest, great equiptment. But they could read conditions like breeze, wind, humidity, that all felt the flight of a bullet traveling 500 yards.

Again it is the Indian not the Arrow that is the reason certain Indians alway win.
 
Toxictom

Toxictom

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If someone wanted to check out Freedie's works, would you recommend the video or the book?
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
Toxictom said:
If someone wanted to check out Freedie's works, would you recommend the video or the book?
Click to expand...

I'm learn more toward videos because I think the video is like a photo, worth 1,000 words. Plus you can watch about 5 0r 6 times, the more time you watch, the more you see.

Do not get me wrong, books are also great. One of the greatest books on making shot, and seeing shot was Ray Martins 99 Shots. Valuable resource.

But bottom line is read, watch, and No practice. You will not improve, practice is why people improve, and then the practice become memory.
 
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