Why was the final grouping at the SBE Pro Events Single Elimination?

watchez · Apr 18, 2016

Why was the SBE 10 Ball Event switched to single elimination when it got down to the final group of players?

From their website:

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/proevents.html

Pro 10 Ball
Follow tourney brackets online!

Click for Player Registration

Starts Thursday at 12 Noon - Ends Sunday

$10,000 First Place Guaranteed

Double Elimination - Races to 10

Want to see who's playing?

and

http://www.superbilliardsexpo.com/Pro-10Ball-more.html

General Information

10-Ball, races to 10
Finals will be one race to 13
Double Elimination
Open to all players, men and women
Rack your own and 10-ball does not count on the break
3 fouls in a row results in loss of game. Players must notify their opponent when they are on 2 fouls.
No call shots
Cue ball fouls only - foul results in ball-in-hand
Push after the break only
If a player accidentally touches a ball, their opponent will have the option to leave ball as-is or put back where he/she thinks it was

storke · Apr 18, 2016

I also found that odd; pretty sure what ever the response or explanation still wont quite make sense to me either. From all accounts and through years of having a solid reputation I'm sure Allen had his reasons just seems not right to me.

Icon of Sin · Apr 18, 2016

US Open is the same way. Double Elim until the finals where they play one extended race.

No idea why.

KRJ · Apr 18, 2016

Icon of Sin said:
US Open is the same way. Double Elim until the finals where they play one extended race.

No idea why.

I would think it has to do with "fairness". The guy on the loser bracket had to grind it out, and play a LOT more matches just to claw his way back for the shot at the title. Thus, now it's just one long race, between the guy from bracket W versus the guy from Bracket L, head to head, winner takes all.

Which bracket do you want to be in at the end

BrooklynJay · Apr 18, 2016

I think they did it to save time. The show's over at around 5pm on Sunday and I don't think they wanted matches on Sunday going well past that time.

I think the single elim is fine - the not redrawing the players so winners play losers was not. The winners played each other and knocked each other out. It was dumb.

watchez · Apr 18, 2016

Icon of Sin said:
US Open is the same way. Double Elim until the finals where they play one extended race.

No idea why.

This was not just the Finals --- it was the final 8 players - 4 on the winners, 4 on the losers --- that all became single elimination. So the 4 winners had the chance to be knocked out with only having one loss.

And the point is, IF you advertise something as Double Elimination, you should do what you advertise. Surely, after countless SBE events and being around pool his entire life, Allen and his team know how long it takes to complete a 64 man bracket.

shinobi · Apr 18, 2016

watchez said:
Surely, after countless SBE events and being around pool his entire life, Allen and his team know how long it takes to complete a 64 man bracket.

Did Mike Wong enter the event? :grin-square:

Icon of Sin · Apr 18, 2016

ChicagoRJ said:
I would think it has to do with "fairness". The guy on the loser bracket had to grind it out, and play a LOT more matches just to claw his way back for the shot at the title. Thus, now it's just one long race, between the guy from bracket W versus the guy from Bracket L, head to head, winner takes all.

Which bracket do you want to be in at the end

2 more. I counted.

Icon of Sin · Apr 18, 2016

shinobi said:
Did Mike Wong enter the event? :grin-square:

Yes. Lost to Earl in the First Round. Beat Robert Ferry in first B Side Match. Lost to Oscar Dominguez after that.

The bracket is on the SBE site.

Icon of Sin · Apr 18, 2016

watchez said:
This was not just the Finals --- it was the final 8 players - 4 on the winners, 4 on the losers --- that all became single elimination. So the 4 winners had the chance to be knocked out with only having one loss.

And the point is, IF you advertise something as Double Elimination, you should do what you advertise. Surely, after countless SBE events and being around pool his entire life, Allen and his team know how long it takes to complete a 64 man bracket.

Oh shit really? That's odd. Should have been advertised as Modified Double Elimination with an asterik explaining the "modification".

jtarewicz15 · Apr 18, 2016

watchez said:
This was not just the Finals --- it was the final 8 players - 4 on the winners, 4 on the losers --- that all became single elimination. So the 4 winners had the chance to be knocked out with only having one loss.

And the point is, IF you advertise something as Double Elimination, you should do what you advertise. Surely, after countless SBE events and being around pool his entire life, Allen and his team know how long it takes to complete a 64 man bracket.

I agree if you advertise it that way it should stay that way. If I am Warren, Earl or Alex I would think John Morra needs to go through me first to get to Shane in the finals.

If it truly was a time constraint then the planning wasn't orchestrated well enough.

SpiderWebComm · Apr 18, 2016

Would it have made a difference what the format was when people signed up? Those who are going to play were gonna play and everybody is playing by the same format.

If I make up my mind to play in a pool tournament, I'm not gonna not play because it is single elimination versus double or vice versa.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jasonlaus · Apr 18, 2016

SpiderWebComm said:
Would it have made a difference what the format was when people signed up? Those who are going to play were gonna play and everybody is playing by the same format.

If I make up my mind to play in a pool tournament, I'm not gonna not play because it is single elimination versus double or vice versa.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe you should read what happend again. Worst case scenario - No way winners should have played winners.

watchez · Apr 18, 2016

SpiderWebComm said:
Would it have made a difference what the format was when people signed up? Those who are going to play were gonna play and everybody is playing by the same format.

If I make up my mind to play in a pool tournament, I'm not gonna not play because it is single elimination versus double or vice versa.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The difference is the format was advertised when people signed up - and then changed. Guess to you, it wouldn't have mattered if they changed it to 9 ball. Or winner breaks. Or races to 5.

But that is not the point - the point is doing something you said you were going to do. It shouldn't be that difficult. You had 360 days to plan the event. To think about the rules, the timeframe.

To give someone a pass just because you are mesmerized on how they once were able to draw their ball

SpiderWebComm · Apr 18, 2016

I don't think it's my place to give someone a pass or not. I would say if the players had a problem with it, they can say something and hand out passes - or not. Seems like peanut gallery hating. I spent 3 days at the expo and spent a bit of time on the pro arena. Never heard a single person complain or chirp nor did I hear any players complain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GideonF · Apr 18, 2016

jasonlaus said:
Maybe you should read what happend again. Worst case scenario - No way winners should have played winners.

I agree that they should have had the winners play the losers, but aside from two outliers, I don't think the quality was that different on the A side or B side.

A side final 4 [edited to add in Fargo Rating]

SVB 823
Earl 775
Alex 792
Kiamco 786

B side final 4 [edited to add in Fargo Rating]

Morra 782
Hohmann 782
Dechaine 797
Kennedy 740

So if I'm am on the A side, I don't want to play SVB and I would prefer to play Kennedy (in 2016), sure. But would you rather play Earl (2016 version) or Hohmann? Kiamco or Dechaine?

Put another way, the B side had a multiple world champ, the #2 rotation game player in the US and a world class player (Morra) who won the event.

Gideon

Eric. · Apr 18, 2016

SpiderWebComm said:
I don't think it's my place to give someone a pass or not. I would say if the players had a problem with it, they can say something and hand out passes - or not. Seems like peanut gallery hating. I spent 3 days at the expo and spent a bit of time on the pro arena. Never heard a single person complain or chirp nor did I hear any players complain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yo, I missed catching up with you, this year. I talked to Donny, who said you were around...

Eric

jasonlaus · Apr 18, 2016

GideonF said:
I agree that they should have had the winners play the losers, but aside from two outliers, I don't think the quality was that different on the A side or B side.

A side final 4

SVB
Earl
Alex
Kiamco

B side final 4

Morra
Hohmann
Dechaine
Kennedy.

So if I'm am on the A side, I don't want to play SVB and I would prefer to play Kennedy (in 2016), sure. But would you rather play Earl (2016 version) or Hohmann? Kiamco or Dechaine?

Put another way, the B side had a multiple world champ, the #2 rotation game player in the US and a world class player (Morra) who won the event.

Gideon

And with Kiamco's pattern racking.....

And btw, I'd rather play ANYBODY on the left bracket vs right.

Icon of Sin · Apr 19, 2016

SpiderWebComm said:
I don't think it's my place to give someone a pass or not. I would say if the players had a problem with it, they can say something and hand out passes - or not. Seems like peanut gallery hating. I spent 3 days at the expo and spent a bit of time on the pro arena. Never heard a single person complain or chirp nor did I hear any players complain.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just because you didnt hear it doesnt mean it didnt happen. I went in there Friday night and listened to a certain player complain (justly in my opinion) on how the payouts were.

Also during the weekend I heard complaints in regards to the cueball and the fluctuating temperature in the pro arena. When I was in there Friday night, it was slightly warm in there. I did not hear any complaints about the change from double to single elim late in the tourney though.

jasonlaus · Apr 19, 2016

2 things: i had a table Wed that had the dirtiest balls ive ever seen! In tbe warmup I also had a ball go dead left and hit the first diamond on short rail when it shouldve went to the corner pocket(3diamonds over). Still love the tables

Why was the final grouping at the SBE Pro Events Single Elimination?

What time is it?

One Pocket Player

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

Support UKRAINE

AzB Silver Member

What time is it?

kanadajindayo

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

Registered

HelpImBeingOppressed

Rep for Smorg

What time is it?

HelpImBeingOppressed

AzB Silver Member

Club a member

Rep for Smorg

I can't fold, I need gold. I re-up and reload...

Rep for Smorg