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01-08-2020, 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
If there’s a chalk smudge at the contact point skid will happen - if not it won’t. A rolling CB might slightly increase the amount of skid, but won’t increase the likelihood.

I don’t think the possibility of skids should be a factor in your choices.

pj
chgo
Thanks pat
Print seems small
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01-08-2020, 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Yes, but depending on the distance, etc. you might have to hit the CB higher/lower, firmer/softer, etc. It's more clear to talk about what you want the CB to be doing when it hits the OB. Here's a diagram about that.

To avoid following the OB into the pocket on a straight-in shot, you want to avoid follow, so you want one of the results on the left side of the diagram - that means hitting below center, but how far below and how hard depend on the distance and other conditions.

Attachment 538451


The chance (or amount) of side spin isn't increased, but the effect of it is - it creates more throw that might make you miss.


Maybe, but the better reason to hit a little high is so the CB will start right off rolling instead of sliding - that tends to decrease both swerve and OB throw. You can't always do it, but you always want to.


Hope we didn't leave a mess.

pj
chgo


Pat

Text when you get a chance.

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01-08-2020, 10:06 PM

Boy, you guys are geniuses. I'm still trying to understand the question.
  
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01-08-2020, 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Boy, you guys are geniuses. I'm still trying to understand the question.
hi fran, I certainly feel like I'm amongst fine pool minds, yours included!
allow me to rephrase so that we might benefit from your knowledge

say we're playing eight-ball and I'm on the eight
I have a straight-in shot to win the game
I want to make it
the table is level and the cloth and balls are decent, don't need to worry there

where do I hit the cue ball?
top, bottom, center, etc.
and with what speed?

and I'm curious about different scenarios re: where the cue ball and object ball are
i.e. long shot, short shot, cue ball far away from object ball, up close, etc.
if there is any difference in the way you would hit it then?

hopefully that makes more sense


peace & love
  
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01-09-2020, 01:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
hi fran, I certainly feel like I'm amongst fine pool minds, yours included!
allow me to rephrase so that we might benefit from your knowledge

say we're playing eight-ball and I'm on the eight
I have a straight-in shot to win the game
I want to make it
the table is level and the cloth and balls are decent, don't need to worry there

where do I hit the cue ball?
top, bottom, center, etc.
and with what speed?

and I'm curious about different scenarios re: where the cue ball and object ball are
i.e. long shot, short shot, cue ball far away from object ball, up close, etc.
if there is any difference in the way you would hit it then?

hopefully that makes more sense
Not an instructor but, I'd hit a stop shot with the tip as low as I can shoot it.
I start at the very bottom. A hair over the felt and just raise it a little.
Makes it easier to see the hit and you don't have to hit it hard to make it stop.
The most important thing is smooth delivery with a solid PSR.
Do not pull the cue off line . Pull it dead straight and as level as possible.


  
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Patrick Johnson
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01-09-2020, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
I'd hit a stop shot with the tip as low as I can shoot it.
This sounds like preferring to hit the same CB spot and vary the stroke speed for different distances - as opposed to hitting the same speed and varying the CB spot. This tradeoff choice has been discussed recently somewhere here.

I do the same (hit the same spot at different speeds) because I feel that I can be more precise with different stroke speeds than with different tip placements to get the same CB action at the OB.

YMMV

pj
chgo
  
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01-09-2020, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
hi fran, I certainly feel like I'm amongst fine pool minds, yours included!
allow me to rephrase so that we might benefit from your knowledge

say we're playing eight-ball and I'm on the eight
I have a straight-in shot to win the game
I want to make it
the table is level and the cloth and balls are decent, don't need to worry there

where do I hit the cue ball?
top, bottom, center, etc.
and with what speed?

and I'm curious about different scenarios re: where the cue ball and object ball are
i.e. long shot, short shot, cue ball far away from object ball, up close, etc.
if there is any difference in the way you would hit it then?

hopefully that makes more sense
Thanks for clarifying. I get it now.

Backspin. Always. The goal is a stop shot. Joey wrote as low as possible.I agree. Backspin will allow you to use the least amount of speed required to stop the cb, but enough to to hold the line. If the balls are close, then you have to aim slightly higher but always below the equator line.
  
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evergruven
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01-12-2020, 10:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I get it now.

Backspin. Always. The goal is a stop shot. Joey wrote as low as possible.I agree. Backspin will allow you to use the least amount of speed required to stop the cb, but enough to to hold the line. If the balls are close, then you have to aim slightly higher but always below the equator line.
thanks fran
so I get that backspin controls the cue ball
prevents an accidental scratch, etc.
and it throws the object ball forward(?)
are those the reasons you recommend backspin
or ?
is it about "holding the line"?
please explain that more, if you can
thanks again


peace & love
  
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Patrick Johnson
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01-13-2020, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
...backspin ...throws the object ball forward(?)
Backspin doesn't "throw the OB forward"; it puts a tiny amount of forward rotation on the OB, which helps it attain "natural forward roll" a little faster (and slide a little less). Stop shots don't do that, because, although they start out with backspin, they have none left (they're sliding) at the moment of contact with the OB.

The sole purpose of backspin in your scenario is to stop/slow the CB after contact so it won't follow the OB into the pocket.

But, as has been said before, if the CB is sliding when it reaches the OB, then any accidental side spin on the CB will produce a little more than usual throw on the OB. So it's a tradeoff, sometimes unavoidable.

pj
chgo
  
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01-14-2020, 11:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Backspin doesn't "throw the OB forward"; it puts a tiny amount of forward rotation on the OB, which helps it attain "natural forward roll"
thanks pat- is there no technical term for this?

and fran, would still like to hear back from you, when you get a chance

thanks again..sean


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01-15-2020, 05:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Backspin doesn't "throw the OB forward"; it puts a tiny amount of forward rotation on the OB
Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
...is there no technical term for this?
Transferred spin is the general term. Transferred spin and throw are two effects of the same ball/ball friction - they’re more visible with side spin.

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01-15-2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Transferred spin is the general term. Transferred spin and throw are two effects of the same ball/ball friction - they’re more visible with side spin.

pj
chgo
thanks pat
trying to get this right

an object ball cannot be "thrown" if there is no side spin

but spin can be "transferred"- ?


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01-15-2020, 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
an object ball cannot be "thrown" if there is no side spin
When a CB without spin hits an OB at an angle the OB is thrown by the surfaces rubbing against each other, the same as with spin. The same rubbing friction simultaneously transfers a little side spin to the OB.

Quote:
spin can be "transferred"- ?
Yes, either "spin induced" or "collision induced" or a combination.

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01-15-2020, 11:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
When a CB without spin hits an OB at an angle the OB is thrown by the surfaces rubbing against each other, the same as with spin. The same rubbing friction simultaneously transfers a little side spin to the OB.
right..I should have been more clear tho
I get that when balls collide at an angle there is throw
but when the shot is straight-in
and the cue is delivered to the cb without sidespin (top or bottom ok?)
then, the cue ball is transferring spin to the object ball
but is not "throwing" it- ?


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01-16-2020, 02:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
right..I should have been more clear tho
I get that when balls collide at an angle there is throw
but when the shot is straight-in
and the cue is delivered to the cb without sidespin (top or bottom ok?)
then, the cue ball is transferring spin to the object ball
but is not "throwing" it- ?
When there’s no sideways rubbing (as in a straight shot with no side spin), then there’s no throw or transferred spin. The two always go together.

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