Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page APA screwed our very own sleinen out of a national championship
Reply
Page 14 of 36 « First 4121314 151624 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#196)
trentfromtoledo
8onthebreaktoledo

trentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,759
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toledo, Ohio
   
08-21-2019, 08:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
Trent, the system actually is fair if everyone plays to their full potential, and abides by the rules. And when you say this happens every year, when only 1 team in 2000 gets the boot, thatís a pretty good success rate. Pool players on here crack me up. They get it right 99.9% of the time, yet toxic threads pop up because the 0.1% donít know how to play nicely with the other kids in the sandbox.
APA is notorious for this stuff. Anyone who plays knows this, it should not be a surprise.
Yes, "cheaters" are the reason why, but, we know they aint going anywhere. Is there a way to fix this, nope, apa brings in tens of millions of dollars every year. I think it is hilarious that this is some kind of "NEWS" on the forum. I am sure there are 100 other posts saying the same thing.

Trent from Toledo
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#197)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
APA is notorious for this stuff. Anyone who plays knows this, it should not be a surprise.
Yes, "cheaters" are the reason why, but, we know they aint going anywhere. Is there a way to fix this, nope, apa brings in tens of millions of dollars every year. I think it is hilarious that this is some kind of "NEWS" on the forum. I am sure there are 100 other posts saying the same thing.

Trent from Toledo
All handicapped leagues have some issues. This isnít exclusive to the APA. Stop painting with broad strokes. There are several areas that run without issue. The main culprits are coming from a few regions. When this happens, the head office has a stern talk with the league operator. They take no joy in doing this. I know a lot of the refs and officials by proxy. No one wanted to ban a team. But within the rules they are given, they had no choice. Trust me, the league wants things to run smoothly.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#198)
trentfromtoledo
8onthebreaktoledo

trentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,759
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toledo, Ohio
   
08-21-2019, 08:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
All handicapped leagues have some issues. This isnít exclusive to the APA. Stop painting with broad strokes. There are several areas that run without issue. The main culprits are coming from a few regions. When this happens, the head office has a stern talk with the league operator. They take no joy in doing this. I know a lot of the refs and officials by proxy. No one wanted to ban a team. But within the rules they are given, they had no choice. Trust me, the league wants things to run smoothly.
LOL. Are you serious? I WILL paint with broad strokes: THAT LEAGUE IS A JOKE. I was being nice and not putting out any bad vibes, but, this is truly how I feel. Opinions are not facts, I know this and was only stating what my opinion was. Have a nice day!

Trent from Toledo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#199)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
LOL. Are you serious? I WILL paint with broad strokes: THAT LEAGUE IS A JOKE. I was being nice and not putting out any bad vibes, but, this is truly how I feel. Opinions are not facts, I know this and was only stating what my opinion was. Have a nice day!

Trent from Toledo
I donít think leagues are a joke. However, I find people that make fun of leagues, generally are a joke.

You have a great day as well
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#200)
trentfromtoledo
8onthebreaktoledo

trentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,759
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toledo, Ohio
   
08-21-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
I donít think leagues are a joke. However, I find people that make fun of leagues, generally are a joke.

You have a great day as well
Don't try and play that trick, I was not making fun, I was stating my opinion. I don't care what you think of other people. If leagues are your thing COOL. I think they are money making machines/ great business's and from a players( I love to play pool ) perspective they are a joke.

Trent from Toledo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#201)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Don't try and play that trick, I was not making fun, I was stating my opinion. I don't care what you think of other people. If leagues are your thing COOL. I think they are money making machines/ great business's and from a players( I love to play pool ) perspective they are a joke.

Trent from Toledo
ďFrom a playerís perspectiveĒ. Classic.

Plenty of players that would hand you your ass in that joke league you refer to.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#202)
trentfromtoledo
8onthebreaktoledo

trentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,759
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toledo, Ohio
   
08-21-2019, 09:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
ďFrom a playerís perspectiveĒ. Classic.

Plenty of players that would hand you your ass in that joke league you refer to.
I never said there were not good players in the league, I specifically said I think the league is a JOKE. There you go making statements about nothing. I know a TON of great players that play in that league that could beat me with their eyes closed. For the people who wanna "play pool, meet people and have fun" I am happy they like it. League is still a Joke to me.


Trent from Toledo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#203)
RichSchultz
AzB Silver Member
RichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond reputeRichSchultz has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 2,070
vCash: 500
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Atlanta
   
08-21-2019, 09:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by trentfromtoledo View Post
Don't try and play that trick, I was not making fun, I was stating my opinion. I don't care what you think of other people. If leagues are your thing COOL. I think they are money making machines/ great business's and from a players( I love to play pool ) perspective they are a joke.

Trent from Toledo
that is insulting, Trent. I am a player. I am a serious player. I am in a league.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#204)
alstl
AzB Silver Member
alstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond reputealstl has a reputation beyond repute
 
alstl's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 8,464
vCash: 500
iTrader: 6 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Over the hill
   
08-21-2019, 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bic D View Post
In every situation, criminal or civil, always follow the money.

I don't know anything from nothing but if I thought something smelled fishy... my first question would have been...Who received the money as a result of the disqualification?
Exactly. We think alike.

I've played in a few handicapped tournaments and leagues both individually and on a team. If the guy running the tournament waited until the finals and pulled something like this the manure would have hit the fan and I don't mean maybe.

This is the equivalent of stealing the money off the light and running out the door with the other guy's cash. I'd get a lawyer who works on contingency and go after them.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#205)
trentfromtoledo
8onthebreaktoledo

trentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond reputetrentfromtoledo has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,759
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Toledo, Ohio
   
08-21-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichSchultz View Post
that is insulting, Trent. I am a player. I am a serious player. I am in a league.

My opinion should not mean anything to you then. You fully can think the opposite, but, you getting insulted is your fault. Great that you are in a league. I play in a couple of locally operated leagues that pay most of the money back to the players. I like getting some of my money back from playing league. I think APA is a Joke and it is even more of a joke that someone's handicap got raised or someone got kicked out all together, it happens every year.


Trent from Toledo
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#206)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 09:26 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichSchultz View Post
that is insulting, Trent. I am a player. I am a serious player. I am in a league.
+1

Thereís a room full of APA players in Florida come November. If you think league players arenít ďreal playersĒ, come down with your wallet. Theyíll play you all day long.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#207)
WillyCornbread
Break and One
WillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 546
vCash: 500
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brewster, NY
   
08-21-2019, 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Armstrong View Post
People keep equating this to someone having a standout night. Without boring the general public, there are tools at the teamís disposal to avoid the very situation that happened to Seanís team. At the start of the tournament, you are given a team form. You sign it. And declare handicaps. For the past 20 years, any player Iíve had that was a bubble player, I would declare them one ranking higher. This way, if a player or two went up, the team wouldnít be DQd. There are tools the team captain can use to avoid this. They didnít use them. They got bit. Donít blame the league because you chose to disregard their rules.
Without getting into a larger argument, my position is:

1) If my players are not cheating, I expect the super awesome handicap system to accurately assign a handicap. I'm constantly told how top secret and accurate it is if we do the scorekeeping right, etc.

2) In my opinion that certification form exists for one reason. People can sandbag and cheat the session and qualifiers, then to not get caught they manually enter their own skill number. I take exception to the form in general, it allows people who cheat all session to get a free pass by just changing a handicap. My players went through the session and regionals at their handicaps - but whenever the system fails the answer is that I should have just raised their handicaps myself, and before a ball was ever struck.

3) I have any idea of how my players are going to respond to the pressure and equipment of the national tournament. I saw an awful lot of people fold, I have no way of knowing if my members will. We aren't seasoned tournament players here.

My honest opinion of the handicap system is that it worked out there. Players all played better in different matches and they went up because of it - fine. Now they have to give up more weight and I have to manage the lineup. Isn't this the entire point and consequence? We weren't steamrolling people in general a few nice matches. One we won simply because the very last ball was scratched by the opponent.

"The captain could have raised his own handicaps" is an excuse for both the system and an out for the people who cheat all year.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#208)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyCornbread View Post
Without getting into a larger argument, my position is:

1) If my players are not cheating, I expect the super awesome handicap system to accurately assign a handicap. I'm constantly told how top secret and accurate it is if we do the scorekeeping right, etc.

2) In my opinion that certification form exists for one reason. People can sandbag and cheat the session and qualifiers, then to not get caught they manually enter their own skill number. I take exception to the form in general, it allows people who cheat all session to get a free pass by just changing a handicap. My players went through the session and regionals at their handicaps - but whenever the system fails the answer is that I should have just raised their handicaps myself, and before a ball was ever struck.

3) I have any idea of how my players are going to respond to the pressure and equipment of the national tournament. I saw an awful lot of people fold, I have no way of knowing if my members will. We aren't seasoned tournament players here.

My honest opinion of the handicap system is that it worked out there. Players all played better in different matches and they went up because of it - fine. Now they have to give up more weight and I have to manage the lineup. Isn't this the entire point and consequence? We weren't steamrolling people in general a few nice matches. One we won simply because the very last ball was scratched by the opponent.

"The captain could have raised his own handicaps" is an excuse for both the system and an out for the people who cheat all year.
Your flawed analysis and interpretation stated in #2 is the reason you got the boot. Thatís on you, and not the APA. Sorry.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#209)
erhino41
AzB Silver Member
erhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond reputeerhino41 has a reputation beyond repute
 
erhino41's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 700
vCash: 500
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Maine
   
08-21-2019, 09:41 AM

To be certain, from the start, I do believe the actual players involved when they say that their intentions were good from the get go and through all of their competitions. By the letter of the rule you were in the wrong, even though it was no fault of your own.

The apa has a major handicap manipulation problem. You could say they are fighting a war against it, that is the actual scale of it. I can't tell you the number of nonchalant conversations I have heard about keeping innings up and keeping handicap levels where they are. So many that it seems some don't even recognize this as sandbagging. Now there are also a lot of teams that assuredly know that this is against the rules, but the risk is worth the reward to them.

It really seems you guys were an innocent casualty of a war that must be fought. It sucks, but it is what it is.

I do hope something good comes of this and maybe a lot of open communicating may ease some of the damage done.

It's a private organization and everything done is on their terms. They care more about seeming tough on sandbaggers than they do about seeming unfair, as much as that sucks.

Image is the biggest thing here. I think you did yourselves no favors by live streaming all of your matches. Not to say it was wrong, as I have already started I believe it was all in good faith. Perception and publicity are two very, very important things to a company.

When you have a team stepping up to the challenge and beating teams, fair and square, that aren't, those teams tend to want to blame everyone but themselves. So when you have, say, seven teams that you beat running around the room whining about how your 2 plays like a 3 and your 4 plays like a 5 and so on and so forth, that gets a bit of attention. Now couple with all that buzz a live stream on which you noted comments about players appearing to be better than they are, even if the judgement is biased and untrue, you have, in their eyes, a bit of a fire to put out.

They would rather your team go home sore than have the lingering buzz be about the team that maybe even won the event, who knows, being sandbaggers and nothing was done about it.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#210)
Shawn Armstrong
Abooboo No Neck
Shawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond reputeShawn Armstrong has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,425
vCash: 500
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Join Date: Jul 2007
   
08-21-2019, 09:43 AM

The form doesnít ďraiseĒ their handicap. Itís an acknowledgment that this player has the ability to play at a higher ranking than their current handicap. There is no penalty for declaring a player a rank higher than they currently play at. They donít instantly raise them. This is all addressed at the captains meeting prior to play. Did you attend it?
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 14 of 36 « First 4121314 151624 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.