the sad atate of pool in America

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Don't know about the US.

In Europe pool is a sport. It still struggles and is a very small sport, but a sport none the less. When people are going to compete in a sport, they train! There is no handicap, but there are leagues with divisions. If you advance to the top there are possibilities of sponsorship for the Eurotour etc..Anyway, it's a source of pride to win a division, or even an event. It's fun as well.

Pool is also a bar activity here. Bars have tables and lots of people play on them. Very little recruitment happens to the sporting side of the game, from that crowd. I suppose it's always good that people are playing, but that's not the way to increase the level and participation numbers. Get them in the real pool hall, that's where you get your next Efren. Do you honestly think the next Efren is going to be an APA player? That's extremely unlikely to me.

It's always tough to have to cater to two different groups when running a pool hall, that's why it's tough to do. A pool hall owner needs people skills to keep potential conflicts from escalating and to retain his good customers.
 
ill tell you I have been playing pool for over 30 yrs hanging out at a skating ring enjoying this game more and more. when I was in my 20's pool was something. didn't matter what pool hall you went into here in Louisville, there was someone always playing and gambling. ring games going every night. for a beginner that was just learning the right way to play, it was so exciting. all I thought about was getting off work to go to pool hall and play.
but these days you don't see that anymore at all. everyone wants to do the leagues. if you was to get good at pool thru playing leagues and practicing, you wasn't able to play in certain tournaments because your too good. in my time, you wanted to play the good players so you could learn, you wasn't going to beat them but what you learned was so worth it. this is what has happen to pool, everyone wants something instead of just enjoying it and learning. you don't see the young kids in there learning talking to the good playing asking questions.
my opinion is it will never get better at all. and its sad that I have to say that with me loving pool like I do

The pool scene in Louisville really is in a sad state. I do not know, but I imagine it could not be nearly as bad as it is here in Louisville. I was at the Bank Shot recently, and I heard that the weekly 9 ball tournaments get maybe 4 or 5 players on average, and that the 1 pocket tournaments get by far the best turn outs (of maybe 8 to 10 players). I assume it might be because there is no added money, but that may not even be the reason. Maybe the pool scene is just dead in Louisville (other then the leagues, which I understand are probably doing well). I lived in Evansville Indiana for a year, and the pool scene these was much better then in Louisville for example (and that is a much smaller city). Evansville had many good weekly tournaments going on with good turn outs, but I think 1 main reason why is because they added money to the pot. The weekly tournament at O'brians matched the pot in added money. I do not know, but I imagine the pool scene is doing just fine in certain area's, like down south for example. Maybe pool tournaments just need better advertising, in order to get better turn outs.

I also think that maybe 1 reason why pool is in such a sad and unpopular state is because pool room owners do not want to put some decent money into good quality house cues. Is it too much to ask to replace the tips with regular tips when needed, instead of just slipping on a slip on tip with some super glue? How can newcomers get interested in the game if decent equipment is not offered? That includes decent house cues with decent tips installed on them. People in the pool business are just too cheap though (it seems). No interest in providing their customers with decent house cues, so they are just left with mostly bangers, who could care less about what they are using, and who would never show an interest due to the horrible quality house cues they are being offered.
 
To me it's a very simple problem. It's not dumbing down, it's watering down. In other countries, you strive to be the best in pool. If you can't beat the best, you don't belong. There's no weight given, no excuses made, and you practice. In America, it's about participation. It's about giving spot, making it "fair", make the tables easier, etc. There is no incentive to be a professional or train because you're penalized for that, not rewarded.

There's nothing wrong with having a culture of participation. You just have to readjust your expectations because you're not going to be able to keep up with people pursuing excellence if you just want to participate.

You make some great points. This is why handi capped tournaments get the best turn outs, because they are for giving the weaker players a fair chance to win, and by doing this, the weaker players see no good reason to try to get better (because getting better is not to their advantage, in their minds). This is one other reason why the non handi capped tournaments get such weak turn outs. Nobody wants to compete with the better players on an even playing level, and I think that most players who play league do not care about getting any better at pool. I do not know, but I imagine in Europe, all tournaments are played on an even level. On top of that, they play on 9 foot tables over there. The pool system here in America is so weak. Mostly just filled with players who play just for fun. For all of you who play in the APA, how many league players do you know who say that their goal is to become a 7 in 8 ball, or a 9 at 9 ball? I am betting the answer is few to none. How many players do you know who actually want to get better, and work on doing drills, and who wish to compete on an even level against stronger players?
 
While this was done in jest I'm sure, there are good points there. For example, local bake shop vs Dunkins. I went to one every week with my kids, then it closed about a month before a new Dunkins opened up, and that place is always busy. Yet that local run bakery never had 1/10th the business, and they also served coffee and sandwiches with bacon. Sad how that is.

I also make sure my kids know to tip properly and have respect for servers and workers, we don't leave our cups at the tables at the pool hall just because there is someone there to clean up after us, we put away house cues, chalk, balls, even after others that leave them there. If they are too busy with other customers, I go in the back and make my own coffee to help them (of course this type of thing depends on how well you are known in the room LOL), same thing for helping the kids during junior league.

Even if not really needed, I usually order something at the pool hall, and explain to my kids why we do that.

Respect for others is where it all starts, and from what I see that is lacking in too many places, especially in the US. To see that, just look at all the cigarette butts, scratch ticket, general trash that gets tossed into the street, that is the start of it all right there. If you can do all that, you won't respect anyone.

Great post. I think most people in general are very selfish, and only care about themselves. It is nice to know that there are good people like you out there, who care about doing the things that you mentioned. Having respect for the places that you go to, and give business to. That goes for pool halls too. Respect the tables that you play on, and respect the owner and the workers that work there. I think the newer generations lack respect due to poor parenting. Or this just might be an American thing. Maybe most Americans have always lacked this type of good quality, and have always been selfish and not very good in other ways.
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
The Pool scene is in bad shape because new players aren't replacing old players.
Take a look around your local pool hall. How many teenagers do you see playing? How many pre-teens? If it's like where I'm at it's precious few.
Is there anything that can be done about it? I don't know.
 

RADAR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The pool scene in Louisville really is in a sad state. I do not know, but I imagine it could not be nearly as bad as it is here in Louisville. I was at the Bank Shot recently, and I heard that the weekly 9 ball tournaments get maybe 4 or 5 players on average, and that the 1 pocket tournaments get by far the best turn outs (of maybe 8 to 10 players). I assume it might be because there is no added money, but that may not even be the reason. Maybe the pool scene is just dead in Louisville (other then the leagues, which I understand are probably doing well). I lived in Evansville Indiana for a year, and the pool scene these was much better then in Louisville for example (and that is a much smaller city). Evansville had many good weekly tournaments going on with good turn outs, but I think 1 main reason why is because they added money to the pot. The weekly tournament at O'brians matched the pot in added money. I do not know, but I imagine the pool scene is doing just fine in certain area's, like down south for example. Maybe pool tournaments just need better advertising, in order to get better turn outs.

I also think that maybe 1 reason why pool is in such a sad and unpopular state is because pool room owners do not want to put some decent money into good quality house cues. Is it too much to ask to replace the tips with regular tips when needed, instead of just slipping on a slip on tip with some super glue? How can newcomers get interested in the game if decent equipment is not offered? That includes decent house cues with decent tips installed on them. People in the pool business are just too cheap though (it seems). No interest in providing their customers with decent house cues, so they are just left with mostly bangers, who could care less about what they are using, and who would never show an interest due to the horrible quality house cues they are being offered.


Very well stated sir & i 100% agree. just a little money added make world of difference get players to come out! you would think owners realize some of these guys spend money on food and drinks. it is what it is until economy if ever get rolling good again be no change. all peoples coins went to politicians-lawyers who has destroyed the country.:sorry:
 

RADAR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Pool scene is in bad shape because new players aren't replacing old players.
Take a look around your local pool hall. How many teenagers do you see playing? How many pre-teens? If it's like where I'm at it's precious few.
Is there anything that can be done about it? I don't know.

not many halls left for a kid start game and affordable. on the flip side video gaming taken over there time! over years tried get kids interested in sport cant get them out of a chair with a pry bar if one wanted too.:eek:
 
Very well stated sir & i 100% agree. just a little money added make world of difference get players to come out! you would think owners realize some of these guys spend money on food and drinks. it is what it is until economy if ever get rolling good again be no change. all peoples coins went to politicians-lawyers who has destroyed the country.:sorry:

Well, at the Bank Shot, they can't really afford to add money to the pot. They are only a pool hall. They are not a bar, and not a restaurant. They have beer for sell (sold by the bottle, not on tap), but that is about all I think. I think that the only reason why they survive, is because the owners of the building also run the pool hall. They are a family run business. All of the faculty are part of the family. Very nice pool hall, with all 9 foot Diamonds, and and few Gold Crown tables downstairs (plus they have a snooker table). Very weak pool scene though (other then the league nights).
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Demographic Problem

The Demographic that used to love pool has no money now so, there is a big portion of the problem. We need a new crowd.
 

tableroll

Rolling Thunder
Silver Member
There are 2 contributing factors to what I se is wrong with pool in America. There are undoubtedly more factors though.

One is what I call ....the dumbing down factor. Over the years rules have been changed to make it easier to run out. I am no history expert on why or when those rules were put in place but they have had a negative affect as evidenced in our losses in mosconi cup over the last few years.

I am amazed at peoples attitude where they say.....yea but let them come to America and play with one on the spot...winner break...rack your own ...race to 100 for xxxx dollars ..... Tight pockets on a diamond table and we will show them who is best at pool.

Even if an American does win under those conditions it does not prove he is the bed cueiat..it proves he is a one trick pony. American players have this format down to a science where its just break...connect the dots and you are out. As a result your cueing form and thought process suffers.

8 ball in America is the same way with rule changes to make the game easier. Open table ...bih any where after a scratch on the break takes away kicking...banking....caroming and just all around creative shot making.

Due to the above factors Americans cannot go overseas and be competitive with Europeans and Asians and yet they came come to America and be competitive under our easier format.

The second problem I see is the me first attitude with American players. So many players are rude....obnoxious ..egotistical etc. Etc..especially amateurs. Yea a few Europeans are too but its predominant in America.

Plus being cheap ass pool players to boot.

I was amazed to read robins warehouse thread and saw where league players in her area get free table time. Then flabbergasted to read other areas get a free drink and free table time. It does not take a rocks scientist to figure out why pool halls are closing.

Chandley built his version of ...field of dreams.....nobody came....and the league players in that area expected free table time also?

In my area no one plays for free. There is one pool hall that provides free practice time ..provides a roll over quarters when he closes the tank for league but opens them back up after league is over.

I just happened to move my team from that pool hall to another one that does not provide those benefits. I received a couple of questionable looks from a few team mates but no complaints. I did it for various reasons with one being the intention of helping another pool hall out at a greater cost to me and my team mates. Ludicrous huh ? I am just a broke ass old man who lives pay check to pay check but i dont want to see a pool hall struggle in my area when I can help establish a new division in his pool hall .

I dont know what its gonna take to turn around the sad state of pool in america but making the game easier and having a me first attitude definitely is not the solution.
Who can afford table time along with $3.50 beers? Not me, but that is why for our league players, table time is free a few days per week and discounted the rest of the week. I am particularly hacked by nine ball rules. I feel slop has no room in any pool game. Call everything.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Pool has become

Who can afford table time along with $3.50 beers? Not me, but that is why for our league players, table time is free a few days per week and discounted the rest of the week. I am particularly hacked by nine ball rules. I feel slop has no room in any pool game. Call everything.

Its a big part economy. When the people that are marketed to cant afford to spend $30 a week on their past time, that's a serious problem for everyone except the league owners, in the end its also going to affect them too but likely they will be the last once affected.
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Who can afford table time along with $3.50 beers? Not me, but that is why for our league players, table time is free a few days per week and discounted the rest of the week. I am particularly hacked by nine ball rules. I feel slop has no room in any pool game. Call everything.

There is a difference between cannot afford to pay and don't want to pay.

I have and example for you. I had a guy join one of my teams who sat out a session and was looking to get back into playing again.

When it came for players to give me their fee money after the matches were over he told me the lo let him play for free....i thought ....huh ?

I did not say anything and just put what I collected in our envelope with the scoresheet.

A few days later the lo texts me and says I see you are one player short on fees....joe must have told you I let him play for free which I have before but since your team pays half price tell him he needs to pay half also.

I reply ....no problem. She we played our next match a few days later I tell Joe what the lo said. Joe replies that the lo had let him play free and I replied yea but since my team pays half price he said you need to also.

Joe grumbled about it but gave me the money. I never asked what the deal was and just assumed the lo probably heard a sob story and let him play free.

Come to find out the guy was just a skin flint. Also come to find out he makes more money than I do and just bought a 2017 z71 to go wth his 2015 Lexus and he is a single guy ! ! Another cheap ass pool player in my book.
 

RADAR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Its a big part economy. When the people that are marketed to cant afford to spend $30 a week on their past time, that's a serious problem for everyone except the league owners, in the end its also going to affect them too but likely they will be the last once affected.

very true & its same scenario with golf courses closing up. 1 in my home town. simply lack of disposable coins. until govt gets a hair cut & clean up nothing will change. the corrupt will continue to rob the American people.
 

Colormegone2002

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Another thing thats wrong with pool is nobody supports each other. They gripe about

not being able to watch good pool and then gripe if they gotta pay a little bit to do so.

There's a super great event going on by Darren A and I'll bet theres prolly 50-60

people watching it. No support. Just let it die
 

SilverCue

Sir Raksalot
Silver Member
Tell the Liberals that they can have free pool time if they bring a Conservative willing to pay double. :)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

efirkey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the state of pool in America is so bad, then why are there so many foreigners playing in American pool tournaments, and a few of them stay here for good.
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
The Pockets

If the state of pool in America is so bad, then why are there so many foreigners playing in American pool tournaments, and a few of them stay here for good.

Most of the bad is located in rural environments and we have a lot of those. Up North, Florida and California might not be as bad as well as a few pockets of activity there and there. I think Rural Pool is about shot.
 

oldzilla

Accu-Stats Messenger
Silver Member
Most of the bad is located in rural environments and we have a lot of those. Up North, Florida and California might not be as bad as well as a few pockets of activity there and there. I think Rural Pool is about shot.

Manoman this is 100%.

I didn't have to read the thread when I seen this most recent post from Robin !
It is exactly what I wanted to add here.
When I was a young lad there was some kind of place to play pool in every nook and cranny that had a main street.
It connected the game from village to village, from village to cities and so on.
CONNECTED !
IT IS NOT CONNECTED ANYMORE.
This is what is different from when days when it was easy to find a game.

But other than not being connected (as alot of things are),
I think pool is doing pretty good, even here in the USA. :yeah:
 
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