What qualifies as a legal stroke in APA? I'm asking because at my regional qualifiers this weekend I saw a few players use their fingers to lift the cue to brush the CB to slow roll an OB close to the rail. A legal hit or not?
APA Rules Question
- Thread starter iateyourlunch
- Start date
I think I know the shot you are talking about and to my understanding it is not a legal stroke.
That is a foul in normal rules.
....but we talkin' APA here....the people that give you mulligans on the break.
Check the APA rulebook under fouls, I do not see anything against this in there.
Banks
Banned
Iirc, it was discussed here a little while back and it turned out not to be legal. I still see it used from time to time.
Foul!!!!
Black Cat
Black Cat
I did check the rules and it never describes a leagal stroke. I've seen players that are certified refs do it but I saw a ref call a foul on it so I was hoping to find a specific rule.
That is very strange if some referees would think it is okay and some do not. A player on our team did it in playoffs last year and the LO said it was a good hit
*edit: It would probably be best to ask the ref before attempting the shot and if you really wanted make them show you the rule in the rulebook
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As far as I have seen, observing matches several times at the national level, I believe we're talking about placing the cue tip under the edge of the cue ball then lifting the cue in order to make contact with the cue ball causing it to roll slightly making contact with the object ball then the object ball contacts the rail, as far as I have seen this is considered a legal shot. So long as the cue tip makes a single contact to the cue ball it's my understanding this would be legal as far as The APA is concerned.
That was my understanding as well
I don't know how anyone can call that a foul. If I miscue horribly and get a good hit, it's not a foul. If you contact the CB with your leather tip and get a good hit, game on!
Using the ferrule for this is definitely a foul.
Someone show me the rule that states this. You're even using the tip as intended to pass through the ball.
Using the ferrule for this is definitely a foul.
Someone show me the rule that states this. You're even using the tip as intended to pass through the ball.
A legal stroke is in a forward motion towards the cueball. Raising up the tip is not forward. From WPA rules about what a "shot" is: "A shot begins when the tip contacts the cue ball due to a forward stroke motion of the cue stick". Therefor if you hit the ball and it's not a foward motion, it's a foul as you hit the cueball but it's not a "shot".
I don't see anything in the APA rules about exactly what a legal stroke is according to the APA, which should mean that the standard rules apply.
Pardon my crude cue stick drawings, but I just wanted to show the direction the tip is being sent.
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A legal stroke is in a forward motion towards the cueball. Raising up the tip is not forward.
Pardon my crude cue stick drawings, but I just wanted to show the direction the tip is being sent.
Where does a rule say forward? That was my contention.
I know "using equipment not as intended" can be a foul, but striking a cue ball with a leather tip is use as intended.
Read the quote I bolded. If you ask any ref they should be able to tell you. This is technally not APA specific but I don't see any APA rules about how to hit the cueball so if you go by that you can toss the thing like a javelin at the ball or use your bumper to hit the ball. I figure if it's not specifially in the rule book, the general world rules apply.
In the APA this is not a foul, unless it has changed in the past year or so. There is no explanation of stroke in the rule book.
If that type of stoke is legal in the APA league, they may as well remove
"Pool" from their name because what they are playing is not the same game as the rest of the world plays.
There are probably more similarities between a chicken and a cow than there are between the APA and WPA rules.
Two different entities, so different rules. Neither the WPA, BCA, VNEA, APA, etc. are the end all be all of pool and its respective rules.
What I find funny is I learned this from watching it done at the U.S. Open over 20 years ago. So it definitely is not an APA thing, even if it is the only body that allows now.
Actually the WPA IS the end all of pool rules, since they put out the World Standard Rules. The rest are modifications of that often to dumb things down for beginners.
Any rule set that would allow a goof off shot like this, or any other change to "make things simple for simple people" belongs in bars where the rules are stored in some old guys head and not actally written out as rules.
Not just APA, I also find the TAP rule about push shots and double hits to be totally against common sense where they basically say "if you look like you are trying to avoid a push or a double hit, it's good enough even if you don't actually avoid the foul". I mean why does it matter if you "try" to avoid a foul if you actually don't?
I think the only league rules that resemble real rules for the most part are BCAPL and USAPL rules, probably because Mark Griffin and staff are not idiots.
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I spoke to a ref yesterday and he confirmed that it was in fact a foul but it's only defined in the ref's rule book. He said if it's ever an issue to call a division director since they should know it's a foul. What I don't get is why isn't there a definition of a legal stroke in the rule book?
Great observation about the intent issue.
Whats next?
"Clearly my intent was to pocket a ball so I should get to shoot again even though I missed":thumbup: