July 20-23 Fight Night 15 & 16 Double Header! Big Table 10 Ball & 9 Ball

I agree with Earl..........

Pool is more than just being able to shoot a ball in a tiny pocket.

For years there were gold crowns, Gandis, olhousens and many more with standard 4 1/2 pockets.

These tiny pockets take so much of the game away from so many players that are really good at moving the cue ball around because the ball just won't go in with so much spin.

There might only be 2 players in the world that can run out on those 4 inch pockets.

Now add a little humidity and a little bit of cue ball cleaner wax on the pockets and you got a real nightmare as far as pocketing the balls.

I don't know about taking away the side pockets but that might be the option.

I see many one pocket players that can't run out in 9 ball beat much better players at one pocket.

The fact is this match is not put up for the viewers. It is a match between two players who have a history together. They want to play on a tight diamond for big cash so it's clear who plays better. It's not happening so people who pay can see 10 packs and get all happy feels from it.

The winner is going to be the better player. The winner wants pride in knowing he is the better player. This is called competitive spirit and only A and A+ players understand this feeling.

genomachino said:

There might only be 2 players in the world that can run out on those 4 inch pockets.

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Hyperbole much?

Name your two, I will name 10 more top tier players that would perform at a "very" high level very quickly were those pockets to become the norm in pro pool.

The best players in the world would continue to perform at very high levels on tough, yet consistent pockets like the Fatboy rails. SVB and Alex proved that.

It is the second tier that would suffer and start to fall off, and that is exactly how it should be. The sport should be set up so that it is very clear who the best in the world are, and if we are lucky we might even get a chance to figure out which guys in the top 10 are actually ranked above the others. Because atm on 4.5 inch pockets in a race to 11 between any of them we are really flipping coins for titles, and that is stupid and it certainly does not lead to people taking an interest in the sport.

Celtic said:

You look at a guy like Tommy Fleetwood who is ranked 50th on the PGA and you admit he is awesome, but you are well aware if he shoots a 78 at Augusta it does not mean the course is too tough when the guys in the top 10 often manage to win the event with scores significantly under par. There is a big difference between being the 50th best in the world and being in the top 5.

Pool should not be trying to make it so that the Tommy Fleetwood's of the world have a good shot at beating the Rory McElroy's of the world.

The table is not too tough for pro pool, it is simply proving to be too tough for these two players. Augusta is not too tough for pro golf, it is simply too tough for all but the top tier pros to excel.

All of that said, if the table is "gaffy" and the pockets are cut incorrectly and they spit out balls that should be going, that is a different thing.

This "is" the exact same table Alex played Frost on right? I watched that 1 pocket match and there were very few shots I can think of that either Alex or Frost hit where I thought "man, that ball should have dropped".

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I don't disagree with a word you're saying, but Shane & Dennis are above elite status & I can't hold others to that standard. When you see Shane & Dennis play sit back & enjoy because the Efren vs Earl & Shane vs Dennis era's will be remembered for a lot of years to come.

EL'nino said:

I don't disagree with a word you're saying, but Shane & Dennis are above elite status.

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Yeah, that is the same thing I said to Nick. I think semantics is where some confusion lies. When I use the word "elite" there is nothing higher. The elite are the best. Federer is elite, Tiger Woods was elite, Sidney Crosby was elite.

thefreedictionary said:

The best or most skilled members of a group

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From the definition of the word, the elites are the standouts of the pool world, the guys who have reached a level beyond that of the average pool professional. They are the standouts showing skill beyond most of the others.

Is the stream on yet?

DelayedJuice said:

The fact is this match is not put up for the viewers. It is a match between two players who have a history together. They want to play on a tight diamond for big cash so it's clear who plays better. It's not happening so people who pay can see 10 packs and get all happy feels from it.

The winner is going to be the better player. The winner wants pride in knowing he is the better player. This is called competitive spirit and only A and A+ players understand this feeling.

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Actually, this match is literally for the viewers. That is why a business is putting it on and charging money for it. Yes, there is pride involved, and yes, the players stand to profit. Wait, that's not quite right. ONE player stands to profit, the other player stands to sustain a major loss. Unless, of course they required a backer or a "corporation" to put them in. But, if they required a backer, then that means that they are a broke d$ck.

And that is why literally everyone who wishes to play pool at a high level should care about the viewers and what they will pay for. But they typically don't. And that is why the typical pool player is a broke d$ck.

There's "world class" players and there are elite players.

Both these players can play with Earl or Rodney. I would certainly say Earl and Rodney are elite.

Celtic said:

Hyperbole much?

Name your two, I will name 10 more top tier players that would perform at a "very" high level very quickly were those pockets to become the norm in pro pool.

The best players in the world would continue to perform at very high levels on tough, yet consistent pockets like the Fatboy rails. SVB and Alex proved that.

It is the second tier that would suffer and start to fall off, and that is exactly how it should be. The sport should be set up so that it is very clear who the best in the world are, and if we are lucky we might even get a chance to figure out which guys in the top 10 are actually ranked above the others. Because atm on 4.5 inch pockets in a race to 11 between any of them we are really flipping coins for titles, and that is stupid and it certainly does not lead to people taking an interest in the sport.

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I have to disagree with the bolded.

The reason 9 ball and perhaps 10 ball tournaments seem like coinflips is because of the variance of rotation games and short races (as you've intimated), and even then, the top 5-10 players in the world will usually rank as such at the end of the tournament year.

The Mosconi era supposedly saw 5" pockets, and those 14.1 tourneys were anything but coinflips, with Mosconi dominating the era simply because he was the best.

This whole idea of tighter pockets proves who the best are is nonsense, and is typically the opinion of snooker fanboys (not calling you one, but that seems to be the driving force behind the tiny pocket movement, as if pool players/pool fans want to desperately prove "our game" is as "hard" as snooker).

When a game's rules, conditions, etc change, the standard of play changes along with it. Shotmaking might become harder, but that just translates into more safeties you can get away with (see Chinese 8 ball) and possibly more opportunities at the table for yourself since your opponent will miss more (you might get some easy gameball hangers you wouldn't have gotten otherwise).

And on the note of Chinese 8 ball, we can look to that game as an example of tight pockets not always making a game "harder." The break-and-run out percentage of one of the major tournaments was near 50%. The IPT, played on tables with 4.5" pockets, saw a b'n'r percentage of about 15. The reason is, while those Chinese 8 ball tables might be tight, the rest of the table conditions are "easy." Heated table, magic rack, fast cloth.

That said, I think 4.5" is the sweet spot. Too tight, and you take away a lot of imaginative shotmaking and position play.

If people really want to make rotation game pool "harder," just change the rules a bit: Call shot, call safety, gameball doesn't count on the break, no magic rack, and felt speed in between nap and 860.

No need to try and turn the game into snooker.

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Any updates?

Busboy said:

Any updates?

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57-44, Justin leading.

I've always heard about the fatboy rails and that made me wonder- where does the name fatboy come from in this context?

Thanks guys keep em coming lol couldn't watch tonight at pool tourney watched last night was great 1st round

westcoast said:

I've always heard about the fatboy rails and that made me wonder- where does the name fatboy come from in this context?

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Fatboy is a member here, and he owned the rails and loaned them to TAR for the matches.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=9558

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