One pocket rule clarification: Non-forward stroke intentional foul

Fuji-whopper · May 2, 2017

Recently I started showing my age and started playing one pocket & one particular opponent plays an intentional foul shot which I'm not sure if legal. He basically declares the foul then taps the top of the CB with his ferrule then goes to spot a ball, is this considered a real shot?

In other games your cue has to be moving in a forward motion for it to be a stroke/shot so does this count playing one pocket? It seems like the CB would be in a very different place if he took a "legitimate" stroke but he plays this shot when he's basically frozen in a trap and the CB doesn't move so now I'm stuck instead of him. It only happens maybe once or twice a night and he plays it off like it's a known shot but we in Hawaii don't play one pocket much so we honestly don't know any better. Can someone please let me know what the "normal rules" are on a shot like this, sure some places play with regional rules that defy the norm (i.e. the one foot on the floor rule doesn't apply in HI or Lafayette LA) but what does the consensus say?

Thank you in advance,
Neil

pt109 · May 2, 2017

What makes sense in these situations is ti play "three fouls in a row...loss of game"....
....and then just tap it back

RakRunr · May 2, 2017

pt109 said:
What makes sense in these situations is ti play "three fouls in a row...loss of game"....
....and then just tap it back

Those are the rules anyways, right?

To the OP: have you ever accidentally touched a cue ball with the tip of your cue while lining up a shot? That's a foul, but no forward motion or attempted stroke, so it would seem to me this is the same basic concept.

jtompilot · May 2, 2017

It's not a legal stroke. I believe onepocket.org considers that unsportsmanlike foul but I can't remember what the penalty is. I've seen many people play that tap but I don't think they've ever read a rule book. Your return shot should be to continuously push the cue ball with your tip till the QB is froze to the facing of a pocket of your choice and then say, oops I fouled your shot

maha · May 2, 2017

technically wrong but same result as if he just touched the ball with the tip. so no big deal. unless you want him and everyone else to stop playing you.

pt109 · May 3, 2017

RakRunr said:
Those are the rules anyways, right?

To the OP: have you ever accidentally touched a cue ball with the tip of your cue while lining up a shot? That's a foul, but no forward motion or attempted stroke, so it would seem to me this is the same basic concept.

I've never played in a one pocket tournament....most of the time, the 3-foul rule has
never been mentioned....and tapping the cue ball was allowed at all pool games.

But I think the 3-foul rule is a good one.

lfigueroa · May 3, 2017

Fuji-whopper said:
Recently I started showing my age and started playing one pocket & one particular opponent plays an intentional foul shot which I'm not sure if legal. He basically declares the foul then taps the top of the CB with his ferrule then goes to spot a ball, is this considered a real shot?

In other games your cue has to be moving in a forward motion for it to be a stroke/shot so does this count playing one pocket? It seems like the CB would be in a very different place if he took a "legitimate" stroke but he plays this shot when he's basically frozen in a trap and the CB doesn't move so now I'm stuck instead of him. It only happens maybe once or twice a night and he plays it off like it's a known shot but we in Hawaii don't play one pocket much so we honestly don't know any better. Can someone please let me know what the "normal rules" are on a shot like this, sure some places play with regional rules that defy the norm (i.e. the one foot on the floor rule doesn't apply in HI or Lafayette LA) but what does the consensus say?

Thank you in advance,
Neil

From the last set of DCC One Pocket Rules I have:

#####
Deliberate Cue Ball Foul: If you wish to take a deliberate cue ball foul, you must use your cue tip to strike the cue ball. If you strike the cue ball with anything other than the cue tip, in addition to the foul penalty, your opponent receives cue ball in hand behind the head string.
#####

Now, having quoted that, in real life, you'd probably have a hard time getting the average pool room opponent to cooperate with that kind of call and you risk starting a kerfuffle. So I might let it side.

Lou Figueroa

Black-Balled · May 3, 2017

Technically, not a 'shot'...but what is the difference?

You are an old fart now and soon it will be 430, dinner time.

Coffee and a hamburger. You have much to look forward to.

But seriously, whether he touches it with the tip or ferrule and doesnt move it, taking a foul...the end result is the same. As said earlier, you start bustin people out on that, you will soon be playing with yourself

Bob Jewett · May 3, 2017

Black-Balled said:
.... But seriously, whether he touches it with the tip or ferrule and doesnt move it, taking a foul...the end result is the same. As said earlier, you start bustin people out on that, you will soon be playing with yourself

Well, yes, but if they want to play in tournaments it's better to know and play by the rules. I wish that call-all-ball-fouls was the standard around here because when I do play in a tournament I have bad habits and the fouls cost me.

It's possible to introduce the real rule gently, sometimes, depending.

garczar · May 3, 2017

"Vertical" strike........??

I was watching a 1p game recently and one of the players was in a really tight spot and he executed what i'd call a vertical hit: he got his tip under the equator of the cue-ball and made a upward/backward motion, just grazing equator nearest to him. No double hit and ball moved forward. Looked to me like a legal strike and pretty inventive also.

AtLarge · May 3, 2017

garczar said:
I was watching a 1p game recently and one of the players was in a really tight spot and he executed what i'd call a vertical hit: he got his tip under the equator of the cue-ball and made a upward/backward motion, just grazing equator nearest to him. No double hit and ball moved forward. Looked to me like a legal strike and pretty inventive also.

Nah, that technique is technically wrong, too. You have to take a "shot." A shot requires "a forward stroke motion of the cue stick." [WPA rules, which also apply to 1Pkt. unless specific 1Pkt. rules (or house rules, or event rules, or gambling rules, etc) contradict the WPA rules.]

pt109 · May 3, 2017

garczar said:
I was watching a 1p game recently and one of the players was in a really tight spot and he executed what i'd call a vertical hit: he got his tip under the equator of the cue-ball and made a upward/backward motion, just grazing equator nearest to him. No double hit and ball moved forward. Looked to me like a legal strike and pretty inventive also.

AtLarge said:
Nah, that technique is technically wrong, too. You have to take a "shot." A shot requires "a forward stroke motion of the cue stick." [WPA rules, which also apply to 1Pkt. unless specific 1Pkt. rules (or house rules, or event rules, or gambling rules, etc) contradict the WPA rules.]

I totally agree that this should be illegal....it's getting an excellent result from a foul stoke.

..tapping the cue ball isn't producing a different result from formally hitting the cue ball
correctly...we use to do it at two-foul roll-out playing nine-ball...no complaints.

Bob Jewett · May 3, 2017

pt109 said:
... ..tapping the cue ball isn't producing a different result from formally hitting the cue ball correctly...we use to do it at two-foul roll-out playing nine-ball...no complaints.

If you're taking fouls regularly as in old-style nine ball, ferrule-slapping the cue ball saves time. To the extent that you need to move the cue ball to a particular spot, it's probably not the best way unless maybe you trap the cue ball against a cushion with the side of the stick.

billiardthought · May 3, 2017

I think the idea of tapping the cue ball instead of 'making a forward stroke' to foul could be considered unsportsmanlike if you want to go there, but if someone were to do it to me I would just do it right back.

The last guy I told was being unsportsmanlike found other action the next table down. I play by the rules "if you do it, I can do it". Nothing more, nothing less.

AtLarge · May 3, 2017

billiardthought said:
I think the idea of tapping the cue ball instead of 'making a forward stroke' to foul could be considered unsportsmanlike if you want to go there ...

Correct. You can't just willly nilly do anything you want to and say it's just a 1-point foul. You have to make a "shot," which involves a "forward stroke motion of the cue stick."

It's an important distinction. When playing with frayed nerves under high pressure, it can be difficult to actually make a "stroke" and still only slightly move the CB. It's possible to seriously err in such conditions -- opening up a shot for your opponent -- whereas just tapping or touching some portion of the CB is done more easily.

[Repeating comments I've made previously.]

Bob Jewett · May 3, 2017

billiardthought said:
... I play by the rules "if you do it, I can do it". ...

I'd rather play by the actual rules of the game but I also realize that most players including most "professional" players have only a vague idea of what the rules actually are. I've met too many players who make some kind of move every time any slightly complicated situation comes up. Did you know that if your opponent is on two fouls and you make a ball he is off his fouls? You have to play a safe to keep him on fouls.

JusticeNJ · May 3, 2017

I recall a straight pool match between Efren and Dallas West (I'm pretty sure it was Dallas) where Efren tapped the cue ball with his ferrule and got hit with a 15 point penalty and a re-rack (as if it were a third foul).

Bob Jewett · May 3, 2017

JusticeNJ said:
I recall a straight pool match between Efren and Dallas West (I'm pretty sure it was Dallas) where Efren tapped the cue ball with his ferrule and got hit with a 15 point penalty and a re-rack (as if it were a third foul).

2000 US Open Straight Pool at the Roseland Ballroom in NYC.

bbb · May 3, 2017

JusticeNJ said:
I recall a straight pool match between Efren and Dallas West (I'm pretty sure it was Dallas) where Efren tapped the cue ball with his ferrule and got hit with a 15 point penalty and a re-rack (as if it were a third foul).

......who won??

maha · May 3, 2017

thats different of course. in a big tournament than all rules count and it is okay for your opponent to call any infraction on you.

but in any thing, your rep follows you all your life so if you are a rules nit you are stuck with that.

One pocket rule clarification: Non-forward stroke intentional foul

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