Ivory............
- Thread starter whammo57
- Start date
here we go... every few months...
exactly right! Every few months.......thousands, and thousands more Elephants have been slaughtered. 100,000 in just 24 months.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/100000-elephants-killed-across-africa-in-two-years-study-finds/
Yep, Ivory v10.0......
And the sad fact of that matter is that making items containing old/antiuque and pre-ban ivory illegal to sell or trade here in the US (as they've suggested) will have ZERO net impact on that, only to degrade private citizens' property rights. The demand for ivory here in the US is beyond minuscule compared to that in Asia. Besides, there is an orderly and working free market for it here that complies with existing laws that make sense. Zealots don't want to listen to this, however.
My cue has a lot of ivory in it. None of which came from elephants within the last two years.
Seriously... you guys set yourselves up for arguments. This thread is created solely for that reason. You are not going to convince anyone here who likes the look/hit of ivory to not get a cue with one. Everyone knows it comes from the head of an elephant. Everyone that wants ivory in there cue could care less... and hopefully all cases anyone who does get said new cue with ivory had the ivory legally obtained and it is pre-ban.
No one here gives a shit about your opinion on not using ivory except those who share it...
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On Sale - Easy to Spread BS
This animated video is the equivalent of Signal 30 and Reefer Madness.
I really have no dog in this fight because the total amount of ivory in ALL of my cues is miniscule, but the propaganda being spread is basically alarmist and the proponents uninformed or deceptive.
There are volumes of objective information available if people chooses to educate themselves on the ivory trade. As it applies to the United States, the proposed legislative ideas being floated will have zero impact on reducing poaching.
Furthermore the destruction of Ivory stockpiles only provides an incentive for further poaching.
This animated video is the equivalent of Signal 30 and Reefer Madness.
I really have no dog in this fight because the total amount of ivory in ALL of my cues is miniscule, but the propaganda being spread is basically alarmist and the proponents uninformed or deceptive.
There are volumes of objective information available if people chooses to educate themselves on the ivory trade. As it applies to the United States, the proposed legislative ideas being floated will have zero impact on reducing poaching.
Furthermore the destruction of Ivory stockpiles only provides an incentive for further poaching.
This... this this this this!
Seized ivory needs to be flooded into the market dirt cheap... that will reduce the price and rarity of it which will then discourage the poachers who are making a ton of money off of it.
The money the governments then get from said ivory sales could go to something worthwhile like their 3rd world country's schools, water systems, medicines, or even... wait for it... wildlife preservation if it is so damn important to them.
But no... its better to just destroy it
Ivory
I dont have a dog in this fight but I was curious where they got their numbers. Per 2 or three conservation websites, there are less than 400,000 elephants in all of Africa.
I dont have a dog in this fight but I was curious where they got their numbers. Per 2 or three conservation websites, there are less than 400,000 elephants in all of Africa.
RBC
Deceased
I really don't have a dog in this fight either. We don't use ivory in anything we make, and I've personally only used it a very few times, quite long ago. And, of course, it was all pre-ban ivory.
I do find this topic very interesting though, and of course, I want elephants to live peacefully and not be slaughtered for their tusks. But, a lot of what we hear seems to be really hyped up so I'm not so sure I believe it all.
Here's a brief summary of some things I've picked up from what I believe to be good sources. My wording may not be exactly correct, but it's what I recall from several conversations and things I've read.
Ivory suitable for use in cues has to be pretty old and well seasoned or it will split and crack.
There are hundreds or maybe even thousands of tons of "Natural Fall" ivory every year. "Natural Fall" ivory is ivory that naturally falls to ground. It comes from natural death due to old age or sickness. It comes from elephants killed because they are attacking villages or people. It comes from elephants culled from the heard to control populations in areas that have an over population of elephants. I don't know how much is currently stock piled but the estimates are huge.
Countries that deal with poaching fall into 2 different categories, those who are successful at managing their elephant populations, and those that aren't. The ones who are successful do so by using the money they get from "Natural Fall" elephant ivory to hire professional military type personnel to fight the poachers. Those who don't sell that ivory and have very small budgets are over run with poachers.
It seems pretty clear that the countries who don't follow CITES regulations and use the income from their ivory have growing, and often over populated, elephant herds.
In our world today, there are so many "organizations" out there who's apparent goals are to protect this or that. I've heard that one of these "Protect the Elephants" organizations had raised an extremely large amount of money. The officers of this organization are supposedly making huge salaries. But, if you took the amount of money this organization already has, you could put armed guards on every elephant herd in Africa for many many years.
As I said, we don't use ivory and don't have any plans to do so either. Elephants are beautiful majestic creatures and I am all for the fight against the needless killing of them. I do, however, feel that not everyone who claims to be fighting for the elephants is actually fighting for the elephants. There's just too much money and politics involved.
Royce
I do find this topic very interesting though, and of course, I want elephants to live peacefully and not be slaughtered for their tusks. But, a lot of what we hear seems to be really hyped up so I'm not so sure I believe it all.
Here's a brief summary of some things I've picked up from what I believe to be good sources. My wording may not be exactly correct, but it's what I recall from several conversations and things I've read.
Ivory suitable for use in cues has to be pretty old and well seasoned or it will split and crack.
There are hundreds or maybe even thousands of tons of "Natural Fall" ivory every year. "Natural Fall" ivory is ivory that naturally falls to ground. It comes from natural death due to old age or sickness. It comes from elephants killed because they are attacking villages or people. It comes from elephants culled from the heard to control populations in areas that have an over population of elephants. I don't know how much is currently stock piled but the estimates are huge.
Countries that deal with poaching fall into 2 different categories, those who are successful at managing their elephant populations, and those that aren't. The ones who are successful do so by using the money they get from "Natural Fall" elephant ivory to hire professional military type personnel to fight the poachers. Those who don't sell that ivory and have very small budgets are over run with poachers.
It seems pretty clear that the countries who don't follow CITES regulations and use the income from their ivory have growing, and often over populated, elephant herds.
In our world today, there are so many "organizations" out there who's apparent goals are to protect this or that. I've heard that one of these "Protect the Elephants" organizations had raised an extremely large amount of money. The officers of this organization are supposedly making huge salaries. But, if you took the amount of money this organization already has, you could put armed guards on every elephant herd in Africa for many many years.
As I said, we don't use ivory and don't have any plans to do so either. Elephants are beautiful majestic creatures and I am all for the fight against the needless killing of them. I do, however, feel that not everyone who claims to be fighting for the elephants is actually fighting for the elephants. There's just too much money and politics involved.
Royce
I see nothing wrong with killing some elephants for ivory meat and the leather.hell .we kill more cows and chickens and other animals on a daily basis. for the same reasons. by the way i am a vegetarian .i like my ivory in my cues and in the wifes jewelry.
Ivory
Inocent animals are being slaughted for ivory,hides,pelts, I say ,and mean this whole hearted kill the pouchers....and band the use of ivory and elephant wraps,etc.let the precious beasts live,f--k the pouchers kill them just like the animals on sight.Ivory serves no purpuse in live as a inlay,Gus Szamboti said fancy never made a ball. Bring back the mother of pearl real inlays,silver..NO NEED FOR IVORY IN A CUE ANYMORE. My opinion,my be the new breed of collectors or none players that think they can play and look better feel its nicer looking. You all sicken me,and all the cue makers that use it I hope you all get busted and fined,really.Lets see what happens at the hopkins show this year.You can take this to the bank,the feds will be there and will enforce the state and international laws and fine you and take if needed the product.You ivory users and lovers and cue makers, you will be taken care of in the lawful manner needed. Rich aka the skunk.
Inocent animals are being slaughted for ivory,hides,pelts, I say ,and mean this whole hearted kill the pouchers....and band the use of ivory and elephant wraps,etc.let the precious beasts live,f--k the pouchers kill them just like the animals on sight.Ivory serves no purpuse in live as a inlay,Gus Szamboti said fancy never made a ball. Bring back the mother of pearl real inlays,silver..NO NEED FOR IVORY IN A CUE ANYMORE. My opinion,my be the new breed of collectors or none players that think they can play and look better feel its nicer looking. You all sicken me,and all the cue makers that use it I hope you all get busted and fined,really.Lets see what happens at the hopkins show this year.You can take this to the bank,the feds will be there and will enforce the state and international laws and fine you and take if needed the product.You ivory users and lovers and cue makers, you will be taken care of in the lawful manner needed. Rich aka the skunk.
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Sean Makes a Great Point
I am a big proponent of using ivory in pool cues. And that's what I insist upon when I look for a pool cue. I won't burden the readers with my reasons and let's just leave it at that.
Having said that....oops...."written" that, I am seriously torn about using ivory because the massive slaughter of elephants for their tusks and ears is just sickening......it's absolutely needless and sheer butchery of a precious species of wildlife.....same applies to rhinos and their horns......this has got to stop and I donate money to saving the elephants......it's horrible what's happening.
Now I don't feel like a hypocrite. I still want ivory in my cues and as long as the ivory is pre-ban 1978 ivory, or a different, permissible form of ivory that's still legal. Why shouldn't I use it? Once the pre-ban ivory is gone, it's gone......but if it's still available, and it's legal under the revised ivory regulation.....why not?
I deal with top notch cue-makers that I believe to be ethical individuals that are not breaking the law when they use ivory in pool cues they make. The thinking is probably that as this supply of legal ivory diminishes, and becomes more expensive, it will spawn increased ivory smuggling into the USA and create a black market for new ivory right here in the USA. I do not think there is a cause and effect here with the use of pre-ban ivory in pool cues or musical instruments and how using "legal" ivory contributes to the slaughter of elephants.
The USA is fiercely enforcing this new ivory reg.......Prince William was just here in the USA campaigning for protecting the elephants......Good for him......I mean that.....We should protect the elephants........but at the same time, protect my rights under the law as well. I am allowed to buy and use pre-ban ivory in my pool cues and sell the cues anywhere in the USA.....okay, the international markets are out......but anywhere in the USA. It's still legal to buy and sell and "manufacture" pool cues with pre-ban ivory.
Again, the slaughter of elephants for their tusks and ears is just pure savagery and I support protecting any and all endangered wildlife species, especially elephants & rhinos. However, I admit I'm torn over this but I've decided I'll use ivory in my pool cues as long as the ivory is legal and the cue-makers I deal with are upstanding individuals that I believe and trust to always use legal, pre-ban ivory or else other forms of ivory specifically allowed under the revised ivory regulation.
Matt B.
I am a big proponent of using ivory in pool cues. And that's what I insist upon when I look for a pool cue. I won't burden the readers with my reasons and let's just leave it at that.
Having said that....oops...."written" that, I am seriously torn about using ivory because the massive slaughter of elephants for their tusks and ears is just sickening......it's absolutely needless and sheer butchery of a precious species of wildlife.....same applies to rhinos and their horns......this has got to stop and I donate money to saving the elephants......it's horrible what's happening.
Now I don't feel like a hypocrite. I still want ivory in my cues and as long as the ivory is pre-ban 1978 ivory, or a different, permissible form of ivory that's still legal. Why shouldn't I use it? Once the pre-ban ivory is gone, it's gone......but if it's still available, and it's legal under the revised ivory regulation.....why not?
I deal with top notch cue-makers that I believe to be ethical individuals that are not breaking the law when they use ivory in pool cues they make. The thinking is probably that as this supply of legal ivory diminishes, and becomes more expensive, it will spawn increased ivory smuggling into the USA and create a black market for new ivory right here in the USA. I do not think there is a cause and effect here with the use of pre-ban ivory in pool cues or musical instruments and how using "legal" ivory contributes to the slaughter of elephants.
The USA is fiercely enforcing this new ivory reg.......Prince William was just here in the USA campaigning for protecting the elephants......Good for him......I mean that.....We should protect the elephants........but at the same time, protect my rights under the law as well. I am allowed to buy and use pre-ban ivory in my pool cues and sell the cues anywhere in the USA.....okay, the international markets are out......but anywhere in the USA. It's still legal to buy and sell and "manufacture" pool cues with pre-ban ivory.
Again, the slaughter of elephants for their tusks and ears is just pure savagery and I support protecting any and all endangered wildlife species, especially elephants & rhinos. However, I admit I'm torn over this but I've decided I'll use ivory in my pool cues as long as the ivory is legal and the cue-makers I deal with are upstanding individuals that I believe and trust to always use legal, pre-ban ivory or else other forms of ivory specifically allowed under the revised ivory regulation.
Matt B.
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For all pre-ban ivory...im all about it..i agree with a post earlier..by having all ivory destroyed just increases the.price of it..and it just fuels poachers more....if anyone wants they can collect all preban ivory cues and send it to me...ill.protect it
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Big Yellow Taxi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtJPs8IDgU
As long as there are enuff Elephants left for the Zoos, who cares eh.
I have stood beside elephants and scratched their ears. Gentle Giants.
I have also watched trainers beat the ever living crap out of them as well.
I felt like puking, because I was working in the USA and an assault charge wouldn't have went down well.
We all wanted to take that trainers oak staff with the hook on the end and beat the crap of of him. It was absolutely sickening.
Just have to witness it once guys and you might change your mind re Ivory.
Africa is a long ways off. As long as people don't come to your house and mess with your stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvtJPs8IDgU
As long as there are enuff Elephants left for the Zoos, who cares eh.
I have stood beside elephants and scratched their ears. Gentle Giants.
I have also watched trainers beat the ever living crap out of them as well.
I felt like puking, because I was working in the USA and an assault charge wouldn't have went down well.
We all wanted to take that trainers oak staff with the hook on the end and beat the crap of of him. It was absolutely sickening.
Just have to witness it once guys and you might change your mind re Ivory.
Africa is a long ways off. As long as people don't come to your house and mess with your stuff.
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Joni Mitchell sang it first and better. The video is a little over the top and is sensationalized.... but still.... I don't see the need for ivory in a cue except for bragging rights and monetary value. There are better materials for building cues.
JMHO
Kim