keeping maple clean

jcaction2587 said:

I am haveing huge problem keeping maple clean when I sand and cut it.....I have alot of curly maple that is on the softer side and likes to get dirty from the dust off of the ringwork and other woods.....I have some birdseye that is harder and doesn't get quiet as dirty as the softer curly maple but it still gets black dust and other wood dust on it.....I have tried everything i know to clean it up before clearcoat but to no avail.....any good sugestions????

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150 psi air nozzle and dont sand from the direction of the black towards the maple :thumbup:

Clean Maple Process Control

Hi,

The three things I do to avoid cross contamination are:

1. Make sure my system is working to it's best function by tweaking your feed and speed of your RPM vs. feed rate while tapering. It's just like your welding, you got to get the machine set right for voltage and amps, prep the joint properly, have the right rod angle, and rate of speed on your pass if you want to lay down the dimes. If you play with these functions and have a sharp cutter ( saw blade or router depending on your system ) you can achieve a finished product that does not have to be sanded.

You may have to use a tack cloth to get the colored veneers tiny loose specs off before you put on the epoxy sealer as they can spread in the epoxy while spinning the cue and applying same. Any sanding can be dangerous in that area. If you have to sand, use 100 grit in light strokes going lengthwise on the cue. Do not spin the cue and sand on the veneers. Blow air also while lightly sanding but be careful here. AS I said get the feeds and speeds right and there is no sanding.

2. On my final tapering pass I place have an air valve with a jet nozzle pointed a the blade curf cutting area. This will solve 99% of your problems. Make sure you have dry air. I use a desiccant air filter for drying the air. Moist air is not your friend here. After the last pass blow off the entire cue and then immediatly put making tape on white joint collars or butt caps as they can get dirty just hanging around the shop. Take the tape off right before you epoxy!!!



3. If you have to sand and spin the cue at the joint area, spray air on the area while you lightly sand and change paper often. Once the black phenolic gets in the maple, especially soft curly, you got problems!

This cross contamination problem plagued me for a long time and now, I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT!

Just remember what the Sho Lin Priest said to Grasshopper in the TV Show Kung Fu. "When you have walked on the rice paper Grasshopper, and do not leave a mark, then you shall have learned".:grin: This cross contamination avoidance is kinda like that. You have to put some effort into getting your process control routine correct so this is not a problem for you. If you want stellar clean results pay attention to all little details.

Good Luck,

Rick G

Rarely will cutting it get the black dust into the pores of the lighter colored wood. It just stays on the surface, so a quick pass over with high pressure air should get rid of any on it after cutting. But when sanding it can mash dark dust into the pores. So you really need to use high pressure air spraying on it while sanding. Sanding toward the rings will also help keep ring dust away from the maple. But when sanding across inlays you don't have that luxury and high pressure air seems to be the only prevention.

Hi,

I remember a Quote from Chis Hightower's book concerning the sanding with air for avoiding contamination in the Maple.

It goes something like this " If this is all you learn from this book, this alone is worth the price of the entire book".:thumbup:

You know, he was right because no one will buy a cue with ebony or phenolic dust in the maple.

RG

The above suggestions are very good, you could also use a sanding sealer like Deft for example. It works very well. sand with 220 afterwards.

Sanding sealer in between grits or even thin CA helps greatly . Enduro water based sanding sealer is the nutz ....

jcaction2587 said:

Thanks for the advice everyone....I only ever have problems with the sanding....I ususally stop and blow all the dust off...and I do sand towards the joints and rings....but the venneers and points are another story......I have not tried useing air at the same time as sanding....and where can I find the sanding sealer...your talking about??? I guess your applying it before you sand?...right after you take a cut?

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Normally I sand 180 then apply the sealer, For some reason, there is no bleeding with 180, don't press to hard. Lowells offer a product called deft sanding sealer, works very well, after it dries which is quick, I sand with 220, Just my method but it works very well.

air nozzle and majic eraser while sanding this takes a 2nd person then follow up with just the air and the eraser always sand from light or maple into the darker wood or phenolic blow out the sand paper with each pass also this should work great always get very close to finish size before sanding always use a sanding pad or soft rubber block

I use a shop-vac to pull the dust off the wood and also use a plumbers open weave sandpaper (actually not a paper) to sand in the problem areas, which lets the dust migrate up to the top of the cloth. Its only about 1-1/2 inches wide so you have to keep it moving or use light pressure.

Michael Webb said:

Normally I sand 180 then apply the sealer, For some reason, there is no bleeding with 180, don't press to hard. Lowells offer a product called deft sanding sealer, works very well, after it dries which is quick, I sand with 220, Just my method but it works very well.

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Good advice....
I believe most of the problem lays in using too fine of sandpaper with too much pressure. Choose the correct grit and let the paper do it's job.

BarenbruggeCues said:

Good advice....
I believe most of the problem lays in using too fine of sandpaper with too much pressure. Choose the correct grit and let the paper do it's job.

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Thanks Dave, We both know to fine is not always a good thing. Proof is in the pudding so to speak.

jcaction2587 said:

boy is it ever...that may be my problem as I have been useing 300 and 400 grit.....so are yall useing the 180...then coating the sanding sealer on and the proceeding to sand on up to 400 before clear coat??? Also how fast are yall spinning your cues when your cutting? I have been leaving my router on 32,000 and lathe on 2,800....but I have seen alot of cue builders cutting on like 500 on the lathe? Also I am useing a 1/4 4 fluted endmill instead of a wing cutter or regular router bit...with the router laid horizontal faceing the work... it just seems to work better than every thing else I have tried....maybe because I am useing the wrong speed....

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I have never put an indicator on my rpm speed, but it's not very fast, Between centers to fast can cause gravity bounce, at least that's what I can it. I do a pass in about 3.5 minutes. I do however sand on high speed with 180, when using woods that bleed, I use a paper towel and wip light color to dark color twice, let it sit a minute then spin the cue and apply two more times, I pour on top and hold the paper towel on the bottom so it keeps it somewhat smooth, after drying I sand with 220, that's it, wash it with laquer thinner and start my 207 sealer, Sealers between Cue makers will vary but I have not, and will never use super glue.

jcaction2587 said:

boy is it ever...that may be my problem as I have been useing 300 and 400 grit.....so are yall useing the 180...then coating the sanding sealer on and the proceeding to sand on up to 400 before clear coat??? Also how fast are yall spinning your cues when your cutting? I have been leaving my router on 32,000 and lathe on 2,800....but I have seen alot of cue builders cutting on like 500 on the lathe? Also I am useing a 1/4 4 fluted endmill instead of a wing cutter or regular router bit...with the router laid horizontal faceing the work... it just seems to work better than every thing else I have tried....maybe because I am useing the wrong speed....

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Hi,

I agree that having the live tooling facing horizontal is better than a vertical router by far and was using that method for the last three years. I now however am using a new dedicated table saw machine for the butt taper equipped with variable speed dc motors and now I only use my lathe and router for cutting my wrap groove with the router between centers.

The carbide saw blade allows me to take more aggressive cuts initially, then I can take the light passes with the rpm lower and the lead screw slower. Plus it is much easier to deal with the dust with a collection system.

One thing I learned on my shaft saw machine is that after you make the last pass at the slow speed, take one more pass without changing the height of the fixture. It cleans up the pass real good. On the shaft machine I have to do about 90 seconds of sanding afterward. On the butt tapering machine I do the same thing and the rms finish is amazing. With the spring pressure on the live center adjusted correctly along with the speeds I go right from the saw machine to the epoxy application with no sanding.

The key element in the saw machines vs. lathe and router, is the vernier control of the dc motors via the trimmer pots so you can dial up the absolute perfect combo of lathe rpm and the linear motion. Table saw machines without trimmer pots must be controlled by gears and pulleys and it is almost impossible to get the perfect combo for maximum performance. After doing about 10 shafts and 10 butts I was real close to the ideal set up. Over time I have learned to find the G-Spot respectively.:thumbup:

Rick Geschrey

sealer

I have to agree with eric. The enduro sanding sealer is the nutz. Ive only used it for a couple of cues, but man this stuff is great. that and the airhose will be your best allies in the battle.

Michael Webb said:

Thanks Dave, We both know to fine is not always a good thing. Proof is in the pudding so to speak.

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You go that.....try sanding a raw holly/ebony cue with 600 grit and watch the smile on your face disappear.

BarenbruggeCues said:

You go that.....try sanding a raw holly/ebony cue with 600 grit and watch the smile on your face disappear.

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
YES SIR Dammit, didn't look to good without the sanding sealer either at 220.

I've done some cocobolo cues with holly inlays.... makes ebony seem EASY.