Somewhere in the world where the politicians didn't panic
- Thread starter alstl
- Start date
Another poster that can’t wait to hug and kiss people at the pool hall.
I hope they don’t get sick
At year end, this thread is sure to merit consideration as the worst of 2020.
With no intention of politicizing this situation, I'd have to say that my confidence in government has risen during the Corona months. Yes, I'm talking about both Democrats and Republicans, as well as federal, state and city governments.
We are all dealing with a situation in which there is inexact, and ever changing, information and no winning move. Reopen the economy and many more deaths will result and the pandemic will last longer. Keep the economy closed and you get additional social and financial misery and poverty, both of which lead to many avoidable deaths and more crime.
In the absence of a winning move, however, we've seen government a) rally to communicate more than ever with its constituencies, b) work with business to improve the movement of needed supplies. c) convert buildings into hospitals, d) use naval ships as hospitals to ease the burden on conventional hospitals, e) pass enormous economic stimuli packages for both individuals and businesses. Is government doing enough? No matter how this all turns out, we're all going to say they didn't do enough, but I think government has been a shining presence as we all try to cope with the biggest challenge of our lifetimes.
Thankfully for us, the politicians haven't panicked. On the contrary, they've stayed at their posts and done the best they can. All the Monday morning quarterbacks will lambaste them all from now until eternity, but not with good reason.
For now, it's best to appreciate all of our politicians, Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, etc., for they are all working hard to take care of us in terms of our health, our social livelihood, and our financial needs.
With no intention of politicizing this situation, I'd have to say that my confidence in government has risen during the Corona months. Yes, I'm talking about both Democrats and Republicans, as well as federal, state and city governments.
We are all dealing with a situation in which there is inexact, and ever changing, information and no winning move. Reopen the economy and many more deaths will result and the pandemic will last longer. Keep the economy closed and you get additional social and financial misery and poverty, both of which lead to many avoidable deaths and more crime.
In the absence of a winning move, however, we've seen government a) rally to communicate more than ever with its constituencies, b) work with business to improve the movement of needed supplies. c) convert buildings into hospitals, d) use naval ships as hospitals to ease the burden on conventional hospitals, e) pass enormous economic stimuli packages for both individuals and businesses. Is government doing enough? No matter how this all turns out, we're all going to say they didn't do enough, but I think government has been a shining presence as we all try to cope with the biggest challenge of our lifetimes.
Thankfully for us, the politicians haven't panicked. On the contrary, they've stayed at their posts and done the best they can. All the Monday morning quarterbacks will lambaste them all from now until eternity, but not with good reason.
For now, it's best to appreciate all of our politicians, Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, etc., for they are all working hard to take care of us in terms of our health, our social livelihood, and our financial needs.
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I'll put $20 on the guy on the left.
First off, its "woofing" not wolfing.
It is with the highest level of respect for SJM, I disagree with almost everything in that post.
Sweden is gonna be the country to look at. They haven't shut down, apart from some basic social distancing guidelines, so it will be interesting to see how they fair. If they come out of this without looking too much worse than other Scandinavian or European countries, then it looks like most of the world wasted trillions.
My gut feeling is that this was overblown. I understand the threat of overwhelming hospitals, but the truth is if we locked down anyone, it should have been older folks and people with preexisting conditions.
My gut feeling is that this was overblown. I understand the threat of overwhelming hospitals, but the truth is if we locked down anyone, it should have been older folks and people with preexisting conditions.
same here.
I hope your perspectives can remain unchanged, as that would likely mean the virus didn't roll into your town they way it did NYC.
Last time I checked (couple weeks ago maybe), there were 3000 more deaths in NYC, YTD, than last year -which was a mild flu year btw.
A year or two before that the flu was worse and had more deaths. Combine that with the false cause of death epidemic and this appears not out of the ordinary. Here in AZ, they have already admitted that anyone who dies with a positive covid test is counted as a covid death. That makes all of the stats compete B.S..
This is also the only "pandemic" in the history of the world during which the gov has gone crazy quarantining the healthy.
The numbers no longer support the shut down, if they ever did.
I'm not suggesting everyone should look at this the way I do. When there is a people shortage, I'll start to worry about getting a mild cold too.
hi
don't you think if you were to make an argument, being aware of the *current* situation would be helpful?
I agree numbers can sometimes be deceptive..but we would be foolish to ignore them completely
let's look at the facts then
many people ARE getting really sick from covid, and dying
including young and otherwise healthy people
you mention the flu..young and healthy people don't tend to die from flu
and let's not forget that there are vaccines for the flu!
there are NO vaccines for covid
covid is spread via droplets, that's why social distancing works
that's WHY the numbers look as "good" as they do
if we don't distance, the virus spreads more easily
that's a fact
state and federal government resources have been depleted
healthcare facilities have been overrun
healthcare personnel are still getting their ass kicked
and meanwhile, bodies are piling up
this isn't a medical exaggeration
this isn't political jargon
this isn't a conspiracy
these are *facts*
healthy wishes to you and yours
And who exactly are you listening to in order to come to that "conclusion"?
Sir - The Financial Times put together a fairly deep look at excess deaths:
https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c
It showed that for a two month period - March and April - excess deaths in NYC were about 300 percent higher than the average for that same two month period over the prior five years. That translates to almost 13,000 excess deaths in NYC for that period.
Please note, again, that these are excess deaths for a two month period. Annualized, that is around 75,000 excess deaths for NYC.
Please also note that for most of this period, NYC was shut down.
Please also note that COVID-19 has been shown, without any real debate, to be highly contagious.
So, if we postulate a scenario in which the policy, during those two months, had been that everyone should go about their daily lives, including going to Knicks and Rangers games, Broadway shows, dinner in the wonderful but tightly crowded little restaurants in the theater district before the show, nightclubs, weddings, etc., etc., etc., do you think that the spread of the disease would have been about the same as it was when most everyone was sheltering in place? Do you think that the excess deaths would have been only a few thousand higher than the 13,000 excess deaths experienced when a shutdown was in place? Are you aware of the exponential nature of the spread of infectious diseases such as this? Here’s an example of how one party in Fairfield CT led to a wide spread of infection. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...irus-westport-connecticut-party-zero.amp.html. There are many, many other examples of this.
It is tempting to think that if we had just ignored this we’d be in about the same place we are in now, in terms of sickness and death. But as your tag line says, science got us to the moon, and science is saying otherwise.
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I don't take issue with the views expressed by anyone in this thread. I think we're all experiencing Corona differently, each of us has a different situation to manage, and all of us interpret the information before us in a different way. That's all good.
Is Corona real? It is for the wives of two friends I've lost to Corona. Do we know how many would have died had we not shutdown or social distanced? No, not really, but trying to gauge that number boggles the mind. Will we ever know for sure whether America acted with insufficient, excessive or proper caution? Probably not. I suspect they'll still be analyzing it long after we're all dead.
Is it OK to think that reopening the economy is right and that incremental health risks associated with that move are acceptable? Yes, it is. Is it OK to feel that it's better to stay shutdown until things get a bit safer? Yeah, that's also OK. Is it OK to feel that many of the decisions made concerning Corona were politically motivated and poorly considered with respect to the well-being of the people? Yup, that's fine as well.
Are people like me who live in Manhattan, New York a little more sensitive than others when it comes to looking tragedy in the face? Yes, many of us are. All of us lost friends and/or family on 9/11/2001. I'm still shaking from a post-9/11 funeral I went to in which the body had not been recovered from the rubble at Ground Zero and there was, consequently, no real proof that the person being memorialized was even dead. Now, three friends of mine have died from Corona and not one of them had a funeral. In 2001, it was funerals with no dead bodies. In 2020, it has been dead bodies and no funerals. For those who've never experienced this kind of thing, I hope it stays that way, because it not easy to bear, and might shake you to your very foundation.
There's just one thing we all need to agree on. We need to care about each other. To every member of AZB and to everyone who participates in the world of pool in any way, may you survive these tough times and move on to a future full of potential and promise.
Is Corona real? It is for the wives of two friends I've lost to Corona. Do we know how many would have died had we not shutdown or social distanced? No, not really, but trying to gauge that number boggles the mind. Will we ever know for sure whether America acted with insufficient, excessive or proper caution? Probably not. I suspect they'll still be analyzing it long after we're all dead.
Is it OK to think that reopening the economy is right and that incremental health risks associated with that move are acceptable? Yes, it is. Is it OK to feel that it's better to stay shutdown until things get a bit safer? Yeah, that's also OK. Is it OK to feel that many of the decisions made concerning Corona were politically motivated and poorly considered with respect to the well-being of the people? Yup, that's fine as well.
Are people like me who live in Manhattan, New York a little more sensitive than others when it comes to looking tragedy in the face? Yes, many of us are. All of us lost friends and/or family on 9/11/2001. I'm still shaking from a post-9/11 funeral I went to in which the body had not been recovered from the rubble at Ground Zero and there was, consequently, no real proof that the person being memorialized was even dead. Now, three friends of mine have died from Corona and not one of them had a funeral. In 2001, it was funerals with no dead bodies. In 2020, it has been dead bodies and no funerals. For those who've never experienced this kind of thing, I hope it stays that way, because it not easy to bear, and might shake you to your very foundation.
There's just one thing we all need to agree on. We need to care about each other. To every member of AZB and to everyone who participates in the world of pool in any way, may you survive these tough times and move on to a future full of potential and promise.