AzBilliards.com Measles cueball vs Red Circle cueball weight differences
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(#91)
Bob Jewett
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10-25-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson Can you describe what "elasticity" is, how it makes balls bouncier and what that means generally for ball/ball interactions? I've only heard about it in pieces and haven't been able to add it all up. Thanks, pj chgo
Elasticity is how well a ball will transfer its energy to another ball. On a stop shot, we hope for the object ball to leave with 100% of the cue ball's incoming speed. If the balls are inelastic, the object ball will get only part of the cue ball's speed. A result of this, required by the laws of conservation of energy and momentum, is that the cue ball will retain some of its initial velocity, and be going forward slightly after the collision. This action is much more visible with ivory balls which are much less elastic than pool balls.

One way to measure elasticity is to bounce a ball off a very hard, heavy object, like a steel block. (This gives a situation just like two balls running at each other with the same speed, since neither ball will penetrate the point where they collide, just as the ball will not penetrate (significantly) the steel block.) Neglecting air resistance, the bounce height divided by the starting height gives the square of the "coefficient of restitution" of the collision, and gives a ratio of speeds before and after the collision. Wikipedia has several sections on this stuff.

If a cue ball is inelastic, it will follow well and draw poorly even though it is the same mass as the object ball.

Bob Jewett

(#92)
Patrick Johnson
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10-25-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Bob Jewett Elasticity is how well a ball will transfer its energy to another ball. On a stop shot, we hope for the object ball to leave with 100% of the cue ball's incoming speed. If the balls are inelastic, the object ball will get only part of the cue ball's speed. A result of this, required by the laws of conservation of energy and momentum, is that the cue ball will retain some of its initial velocity, and be going forward slightly after the collision. This action is much more visible with ivory balls which are much less elastic than pool balls. One way to measure elasticity is to bounce a ball off a very hard, heavy object, like a steel block. (This gives a situation just like two balls running at each other with the same speed, since neither ball will penetrate the point where they collide, just as the ball will not penetrate (significantly) the steel block.) Neglecting air resistance, the bounce height divided by the starting height gives the square of the "coefficient of restitution" of the collision, and gives a ratio of speeds before and after the collision. Wikipedia has several sections on this stuff. If a cue ball is inelastic, it will follow well and draw poorly even though it is the same mass as the object ball.
In my mind I'm sending you some green things. In reality (an entirely different place) I don't know how or what you'd do with them anyway.

pj
chgo

 (#93) alstl AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 7,843 vCash: 500 iTrader: 6 / 100% Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Over the hill 10-25-2007, 10:13 AM Danny Diliberto on an accustats video said that he did some testing and the measles ball is lighter.
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seymore15074
So what are you saying?

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10-25-2007, 10:19 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by belmicah As I mentionied in this post...the modulus of elasticity is a value that represents the force exerted outward when an object is compressed, therefore giving it "springiness." The higher the force exerted outwardly, the higher the modulus of elasticity, and the higher (or further) it will bounce. It is a ratio of stress/strain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_modulus
It seems to me that a uniform density would throw out this theory...it just sounds retarded. They do use the same material to make all of their cue balls, right?

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 (#95) Handsumm Banned     Status: Offline Posts: 1,019 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver,WA 10-25-2007, 10:25 AM The phenolic resins used may have been molded differently, as stated by previous poster, or may just have a different composition. You're right in that density does have a lot to do with it. I was simply throwing out facts to support my, and others', theories. I don't really know why balls may roll differently, or how exactly they are made.
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seymore15074
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10-25-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by belmicah The phenolic resins used may have been molded differently, as stated by previous poster, or may just have a different composition. You're right in that density does have a lot to do with it. I was simply throwing out facts to support my, and others', theories. I don't really know why balls may roll differently, or how exactly they are made.
I don't know how they're made, either... I'm just saying that if they have any kind of quality control in place (which they must) than it is unlikely.

Honestly, I've always been able to tell the difference between the pro cup and a red dot. I think the pro cup is heavier. I've also always said there is a difference between centenials and aramith pros, too...but everyone tells me they're the same material, made in the same factory, by the same company, etc... I can tell the difference, and I don't need to come up with long complicated theories as to why...it doesn't really matter. I'm interested in knowing why, but just citing something random with no reason to beleive that has anything to do with it just seems kind of nuts.

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Bob Jewett
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10-25-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson In my mind I'm sending you some green things. In reality (an entirely different place) I don't know how or what you'd do with them anyway. ...
You must be new here. At the end of the year, Mike Howerton (the webmaster here) sends each "green thing" holder \$1000 per green thing as a Christmas bonus.

Bob Jewett

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Patrick Johnson
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10-25-2007, 12:59 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by belmicah As I mentionied in this post...the modulus of elasticity is a value that represents the force exerted outward when an object is compressed, therefore giving it "springiness." The higher the force exerted outwardly, the higher the modulus of elasticity, and the higher (or further) it will bounce. It is a ratio of stress/strain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_modulus
I didn't notice before that this might have been an answer to my question. If so, green things to you in my mind too.

pj
chgo

 Aramith Cue Balls - Some History from Tom Simpson
(#100)
seymore15074
So what are you saying?

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10-25-2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson Here's a 2004 RSB post from Tom Simpson (the Elephant Balls guy) with some interesting info about the Saluc/Aramith cue balls. Apparently the red circle and blue circle cue balls are made from different resins, which means they could act differently even if the same weight. Nothing here about the measles ball, but it could also be made of a different resin.
Nice find! Now I will begin considering this possibility.

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 (#101) desert1pocket Registered Fish     Status: Offline Posts: 753 vCash: 500 iTrader: 1 / 100% Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Arizona 10-28-2007, 02:04 AM I guess I wasn't very clear in my earlier post, but once again here is my understanding of the differences between cueballs. The red circle is made of the same type of phenolic resin as carom balls, and the blue circle cueball made of the same phenolic resin as the object balls. From what I understand, there are now "measles balls" being made with both types of resins, though the more common one is the aramith super pro which is made with the carom ball resin. The carom ball material is significantly more elastic than the other pheonlic resins used, and can be easily spotted by it's off-white and semi-opaque appearance. There are also cueballs from all sorts of manufacturers made from different materials altogether, like polyester resin for example. Every different material has different elasticity and therefore plays differently. As Bob already stated, more elastic balls will draw better, and less elastic balls will follow better, even if they are the same size, weight, and mass.
 (#102) Dead Money AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 3,225 vCash: 1100 iTrader: 0 / 0% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: Sep 2006 11-20-2007, 10:54 AM /me beats a dead horse Ok, here is one for ya'll ball experts. Last night I played in a local tourney which was played on 8 foot Gold Crowns with Brunswick Centenial Object balls. My question is about the Cue Balls they were using... The Cue balls where the exact same size as the object balls but were noticeably heavier and had a Blue Marking that looked sort of like a "S." Needless to say it screwed with my shape play quite a bit as I was unable to adapt to it before matches began. Any idea what this mystery ball is?
 (#103) cubc AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 1,117 vCash: 25 iTrader: 6 / 88% Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC 11-20-2007, 12:00 PM the "S" stood for "sh*tty" Cue: Bobby Hunter j/b: Xbreaker "I know it's everybody's sin. You got to lose to know how to win."
 (#104) Gunn_Slinger AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 3,068 vCash: 68 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Virginia 11-20-2007, 01:29 PM it seems that desert has it right. i own 3 different " red circle " balls , 2 are 6 oz ball that do not play the same. 1 is an old 5.5 oz ball from the 70"s i also have 2 centennial blue circle balls (6 oz ) that play the same. all the balls are new except the 70"s red circle. material seems to be a large factor in how they play. the red circle balls are from different companies.
(#105)
TrumanHW
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08-06-2012, 03:13 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Varney Cues A lot of players using thinner shafts often complain about the vibration & noise when using the measle...no issues at all when swapped to a red circle. I do believe that using a measle daily will indeed improve your game.
Why do you believe that?

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