Why "Fix" Pool?

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
We always have 1 or 2 of those threads going, "Getting pool on TV", or, "How to fix pool". But why do you want to?

To see it on TV?
Bigger paychecks for other people?
So there's more people at the pool hall?

If we see it on TV, it's 10 years old, full of applauding for miscues, shaved down so we see game #1, then #5, then the hill-hill final.

Maybe it would be nice to see a bigger prize fund for players, but most people are out for themselves so what's the angle? Are you going to be in that TV match 10 years from now if there's a bigger prize fund?

More people at the pool hall? New players get beat up online and at the hall. You can't just walk over and help them, it's invasive, rude, and pool is a very alpha-male sport. A lot of the better players think it's either beneath them to play with someone new, or the whole, "I only play for money" aspect pops up. That's pretty unnerving for most new comers.

So why fix pool at all? I see it here quite often with some of the, "regulars", who act as if only JA, Shane, or Busty are good enough to talk to them, or those willing to make huge bets that are a guaranteed loss. Other than that, shove off pal.

The only thing I can't stand to see is new players scooping shots. That bothers me. I do love to hear the, "I used to pay my rent with this game", stories; those never get old. With the wide stances and arms splayed out from one end of the cue to the other, hammering hangers into the corners, it's not hard to spot them. But on the rare occasions I bowl (twice so far in my life) I'm pretty sure I look like an idiot to the bowlers so I give the new pool players a little leeway.

I'd like to see more people out and about (oot'n'aboot, eh). Our little 10-table room is packed almost every night now; college and university students, the regulars, and the smattering of drunken slobs any bar deals with. But it's a good time, and more fun than when it's the same 5 people practicing on their own.

But why do you want to fix pool? I get the impression most people would be happier if only pros played, at their local hall. No one else, unless they gamble real high and lose.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Ghosst,

Pool doesn't need fixing. In our relatively small market, we have three nights of BCAPl, four of APA and an in-house league or two. There is an eight ball tournament every Tuesday night. Most every Saturday there is a nine ball event. Most nights in our pool room a majority of tables are being played on. So, where is the problem? Rochester seems to be an average city.

The only place I see pool being "broken" or in need of "fixing" is the "professional" side. Really don't care about fifty to a hundred players in the scheme of things. In any given week, my guess is there are over two hundred and fifty thousand league players on the tables. Some if not all play more than one night. Probably another hundred thousand additional players in non sanctioned leagues. So where is it broken? Only in the eyes of the "professionals" and their "rail bird" supporters. If the "pro's" themselves don't care, why should I?

Lyn
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Is this a serious question about "does pool need fixing" or a rant about "AZbilliards snobbery"?

Remember, AZbilliards is a small subsection of all players. The opinions of a few vocal posters don't represent the opinions of the entire forum, much less the entire planet.

Assuming it's a serious question -

It seems broken to me that the best players in the world can't afford to compete with each other, because even the cost of airfare is beyond their means. They don't have to earn NFL salaries, but if you work hard to become one of the top fifty players on the planet, it should be a given that you can pay the rent with those skills.
 

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
It's a serious question; why "fix" it? What are people's motivations for wanting these "fixes"? I'm not seeing any outpouring of desire for more players, so what's the point?

As I said, my hall is packed and I like it. I even enjoy the really bad players because they are new members to our sport. Hopefully they'll get hooked. But I don't always see eye to eye with the attitudes of other players who seem to thumb their noses at every other player. They just want more money and a pro tour. But why? It's not like any of them are going to be on it.
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool doesn't need fixing. In our relatively small market, we have three nights of BCAPl, four of APA and an in-house league or two. There is an eight ball tournament every Tuesday night. Most every Saturday there is a nine ball event. Most nights in our pool room a majority of tables are being played on. So, where is the problem? Rochester seems to be an average city.



Lyn





http://www.azbilliards.com/2000storya.php?storynum=10621



This kind of validates that.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
David,

Always wondered what the percentage of "commercial" versus "recreational" pool table sales is? Could Diamond Billiards survive on "commercial" sales alone? Valley might be another matter. Their primary market is "commercial" sales. Concurrent with my earlier statement, the game is not in need of "fixing". At least the game as you and me know it. For Johnny and Shane it may be. In all honesty, would the game of pool collapse if there was no pro tour or pro players for that matter?

Lyn
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
I agree with everyone in the thread.

A more accurate statement would be "pro pool in the US needs fixing".....

Of course, with a thriving pro tour (and maybe TV) that could and likely would generate even more interest from the casual player types, which would benefit all of US. Places to play wouldn't have to struggle to stay open in some places, more participation would generate even more local and regional tournies, etc.

But I think Ghosst and Lyn have it right, many places are doing just fine currently. It's OK here, too.
 

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pro pool we have a problem

Pro pool in the USA is not going to come back for some time, if at all, just look at the players that we have and tell me which one of them has market appeal????????

No marketable players means no sponsors, no money, no change!
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
David,

Always wondered what the percentage of "commercial" versus "recreational" pool table sales is? Could Diamond Billiards survive on "commercial" sales alone? Valley might be another matter. Their primary market is "commercial" sales. Concurrent with my earlier statement, the game is not in need of "fixing". At least the game as you and me know it. For Johnny and Shane it may be. In all honesty, would the game of pool collapse if there was no pro tour or pro players for that matter?

Lyn



Don't think pool will collapse without pro tour , and i think that Diamond targets commercial and Valley still has a lock on coin-ops , often wonder how much the make selling replacement parts and cloth.I think Diamond pays their employees a decent wage while Valley transferred Mexicans here when they moved production back here.I think Diamond would do good to offer their tables with any color rail caps and legs at no extra cost.

Maybe even use laminates to reduce cost. I'm surprised Olhausen hasn't jumped into the coin-op market , there is money to be made there i'd think, and Valley bought the Connelly brand , they should look into building a durable commercial 9 footer and market it under the Connelly name.

If i were in the market for a home table i'd want one the same as a commercial.Even SVB thinks pool is trending towards 7 footers , table manufacturers better be looking ahead.
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
It's human nature to "improve" anything you're passionate about. "How can we do this better?" is the question that got us out of caves and into pool rooms.

And let's face it, the pool industry is in a pretty steady decline. Far more pool rooms have closed than opened. The video game console has replaced most of the home pool market. I'm sure there are some pool rooms doing great...but most are struggling to survive. Three years ago my neighborhood (15-mile radius) had five pool rooms; now there are only two. They need more customers.

I don't have a horse in the professional pool race, so I'll leave its problems to the professionals. But as a rule of thumb, the Top 50 players in any sport should be able to make a decent living from their prize winnings. The only solution to the "no money in professional pool" problem is to have more viewers which attracts more advertiser/sponsors.
 

MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think part of the problem with pool is that the powers that be tried several time over the last 3 decades to fix what was essentially not broken. {Changed the game from 14.1 to 9-ball, continuous series of minor rule changes,...}

I also remember back in the headier times when pool professionals had to drive (or be driven) anywhere in order to play. {What is this thing about flying? You want to play, arrive, nobody cares how your arrive, just get there.}

I watched some poker tournement last weekend. A new day began with 3 players, and I suspect the broadcasters were expecting a fairly fast finish so they decided to broadcast every single game. Well, 6 hours later, there were still 3 players at the table with essentially equal chip stacks.

Being able to see every shot is part of watching a sport, just seeing the highlights (like pool on TV today) is ike watching the aftergame analysis--that is totally booring.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
let's embrace the history and the parts of the game that should be showcased

We always have 1 or 2 of those threads going, "Getting pool on TV", or, "How to fix pool". But why do you want to?

To see it on TV?
Bigger paychecks for other people?
So there's more people at the pool hall?

If we see it on TV, it's 10 years old, full of applauding for miscues, shaved down so we see game #1, then #5, then the hill-hill final.

Maybe it would be nice to see a bigger prize fund for players, but most people are out for themselves so what's the angle? Are you going to be in that TV match 10 years from now if there's a bigger prize fund?

More people at the pool hall? New players get beat up online and at the hall. You can't just walk over and help them, it's invasive, rude, and pool is a very alpha-male sport. A lot of the better players think it's either beneath them to play with someone new, or the whole, "I only play for money" aspect pops up. That's pretty unnerving for most new comers.

So why fix pool at all? I see it here quite often with some of the, "regulars", who act as if only JA, Shane, or Busty are good enough to talk to them, or those willing to make huge bets that are a guaranteed loss. Other than that, shove off pal.

The only thing I can't stand to see is new players scooping shots. That bothers me. I do love to hear the, "I used to pay my rent with this game", stories; those never get old. With the wide stances and arms splayed out from one end of the cue to the other, hammering hangers into the corners, it's not hard to spot them. But on the rare occasions I bowl (twice so far in my life) I'm pretty sure I look like an idiot to the bowlers so I give the new pool players a little leeway.

I'd like to see more people out and about (oot'n'aboot, eh). Our little 10-table room is packed almost every night now; college and university students, the regulars, and the smattering of drunken slobs any bar deals with. But it's a good time, and more fun than when it's the same 5 people practicing on their own.

But why do you want to fix pool? I get the impression most people would be happier if only pros played, at their local hall. No one else, unless they gamble real high and lose.

One of the things that drove me away from pool is "trying to clean up the image". This is like going against the grain or swimming against the current in my opinion.

Pool's about mystery, suspense and "the underbelly" of life and that's the major strength it has, not it's weakness. Sure it has to be polished, but we don't want to polish off the "colorful character" of the game.

Dumping and some other things need to be banished, but for the most part I like the underworld element and the now to mention some "T and A" or some kind of sexy style thrown in. A ring game might be off limits, but to each their own. :eek:

I think pool should be shown on a TV Show like the Sopranos portraid the mob. Show the best, most interesting parts of the game involving the characters and let the game its self be a back drop.

I don't see pool ever being a great TV Game unless a solid effort is made to produce the "Tony Soprano, Pauly, Ralph, Junior" like characters. After that is done then I think there may be a great interest in seeing them play.

Until then, let's not change it, let's embrace the history and the parts of the game that should be showcased, not hidden. That would be a hypocritical shame.
hypocrite.jpeg
 

jimM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree

I have to say, as someone who is trying to start a pro city team system, I do have to agree with all of you. Your opinions are valid because it is what you think.

It has to do with what kind of people we are talking about. Some people have what they want and are not interested in going any further, and other people don't have what they want and are working to get it.

The reality is that we don't need a pro tour, of course we don't need professional football, or basketball, or hockey, etc. We don't even need pool tables, or cars, or anything else. Before all of these, people survived. No one died in a quest to find a pool room in 1632.

But, it has to do with what we want. You already have what you want, so ^$%^ everyone else. I do understand that. But, I'm not sure that you can tell me that when you ran out your first rack, you didn't look at the table and say to yourself, "Wouldn't it be cool if I could do this for a living".

It takes a certain amount of talent to be able to play at a pro level. When you reach your level of proficiency, you either stay there or you quit. If you are one of the few that can go on, like in any other sport, you would like somewhere to go. If Michael Jordan had to quit basketball after college because there were no pro teams, who would really care, except Michael.

That's the situation here. You either help or you don't. You aspire or you don't. Nothing complicated about it.

One last thing. Let's say that you are a league player and you love the fact that there are so many leagues to be in, but you have to move to a town that doesn't have a pool room. You would either try to talk people into getting a pool room as they say "no, we really don't need a pool room here", or you just go home and sit on your ass and do nothing. What would you do?

Thanks,
Jim
 

Ghosst

Broom Handle Mafia
Silver Member
Let's say that you are a league player and you love the fact that there are so many leagues to be in, but you have to move to a town that doesn't have a pool room. You would either try to talk people into getting a pool room as they say "no, we really don't need a pool room here", or you just go home and sit on your ass and do nothing. What would you do?

I'd buy a table, put in the garage, leave the door open and play right there. All people have to do is see a table and they want to play on it.
 

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
Dumping and some other things need to be banished, but for the most part I like the underworld element and the now to mention some "T and A" or some kind of sexy style thrown in. A ring game might be off limits, but to each their own. :eek:

Actually, I think that a ring game format would be far more entertaining than match play. More personalities, different playing styles, etc. I also like team match ups. Most pro pool is boring, period. And I am a full blown pool addict, and even I can't watch much of it. Ring games and Mosconi cup have some electricity to them, imo. Let's do more of those. Perhaps a 5 or 6 man ring game or even pay ball match for TAR???

P.S. I am also embarrassed to admit that for some unknown reason, I don't have much interest in the new bonus ball thing, though this may change. I just don't think that the current games are broken and I'm too impatient to try to learn a new game - at least right now. Maybe I'll warm up to it eventually....
 
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