Now that's not very nice to say I do a sub-standard finish. I get that its your opinion but still rather petty to knock someone else.
Adventures with clear coat
- Thread starter weegee3
- Start date
Now that's not very nice to say I do a sub-standard finish. I get that its your opinion but still rather petty to knock someone else.
FWIW, I just dropped off a couple of cues at my buddy's body shop and we discussed this thread and some of the thoughts. I asked him about "spinning" the cue and he said "why? there's no reason to". Again, he has 30+ years of experience and is one of the best in the state. This doesn't make it the best way to do it, it's how he does it and I have no reason to doubt him..nor do all his customers.
Not to start a war, I have an autobody background. Worked in one about 10 years on and off. My father has an autobody shop and has painted about 40 years. I have been spraying the cues not spinning, but I don't think you can deny that spinning will level them out a little bit better and get a more uniform coat. But then again, I hear people talking about how many coats they are putting on, and if I recall correctly, most clears only call for 1 to 2 mils thick. There is more than one way to skin a cat though.
Exactly! My buddy said he likes to walk around the piece and watch it coat. He's putting two coats on and that is going to be in the neighborhood of 4 mil. I've never questioned him, he's been doing it forever and I know just enough to be dangerous! His customer base and nobody coming back even years after a car is sprayed is testament to his work.
Dont for get the shovlels and yard rakes and plungers.
Hey Bill,
Your location "High Atop The Ozark Mountains" - that's kind of an oxymoron isn't it?
Sent from the Great Rocky Mountains (Denver)
LOL
Gary
Sorry you took that personally. I wasn't speaking to just you in particular.
Obviously there are quite a few that don't spin the cue when finishing.
I'm speaking to the practice, not the person.
As has been evidenced by this thread, there are many ways to the same end-result.
How you get there is up to you.
I've found what works well for me and others have found what works best for them.
I've tried shooting something while it's hanging and believe me, it sucks.
I've been using a finish lathe for a long, long time. There's no comparison.
Since I have done both, IMO, one method is sub-standard to the other.
I also feel that during the finishing process, the as-applied qualities of the
finishes can vary significantly, specifically uniformity of millage.
This can be off-set somewhat during wet-sanding.
To me, it's so much easier while the cue is spinning, but hey, that's just my opinion.
KJ
To the real pros out there who have helped me get through this new endeavor, I say thank you for sharing your knowledge. I realize this is old hat to you but I am confident you will vicariously share the joy I felt getting my first cue clear coated successfully.
In my field of photography, I always get a special kick, from passing a tip or two to a young aspiring photographer and watching them drink up their new found knowledge. That is good stuff,
Hopefully this will encourage a newbie cue maker like me to stick his toe into the mystery of clear coating a cue.
Well, I did it.
After clear coating every broken house cue, broom stick, culled cue shaft I could get my hands on, I finally got the swing of it.
At least to the point where I was confident enough to try my hand on a cue that I did not want to screw up.
How did it come out? Freakin' awesome.
No, I'm not a seasoned pro at it yet but it's the best finish I ever put on a cue.
Man. it pops right out at you.
To anyone out there who harbors the idea of delving into clear coat but has been led to believe it's too complicated, dangerous and expensive to set up, don't believe it.
It was a great adventure to explore, to learn from the AZ guys and Utube videos about spraying clear coat: the entire trip was very satisfying.
Hey, that's why we got into cue building in the first place. The satisfaction of building something that others would admire.
Reminds me of the time when I finished my first cue. I felt like a frk..ng Balabushka.
Yeah, looking back now it was a piece of s..t but it was my work and it was a special feeling. I got that again by venturing into clear coat.
Thanks again for all who helped
Herb aka weegee
In my field of photography, I always get a special kick, from passing a tip or two to a young aspiring photographer and watching them drink up their new found knowledge. That is good stuff,
Hopefully this will encourage a newbie cue maker like me to stick his toe into the mystery of clear coating a cue.
Well, I did it.
After clear coating every broken house cue, broom stick, culled cue shaft I could get my hands on, I finally got the swing of it.
At least to the point where I was confident enough to try my hand on a cue that I did not want to screw up.
How did it come out? Freakin' awesome.
No, I'm not a seasoned pro at it yet but it's the best finish I ever put on a cue.
Man. it pops right out at you.
To anyone out there who harbors the idea of delving into clear coat but has been led to believe it's too complicated, dangerous and expensive to set up, don't believe it.
It was a great adventure to explore, to learn from the AZ guys and Utube videos about spraying clear coat: the entire trip was very satisfying.
Hey, that's why we got into cue building in the first place. The satisfaction of building something that others would admire.
Reminds me of the time when I finished my first cue. I felt like a frk..ng Balabushka.
Yeah, looking back now it was a piece of s..t but it was my work and it was a special feeling. I got that again by venturing into clear coat.
Thanks again for all who helped
Herb aka weegee
less than suiteable weather has mostly had me shooting cues through a window opening with the wind blowing paint right back in my face. So i finally broke down and built a booth from plywood. I mounted a squirell cage fan under the box and routed a 5'' pipe to evacuate spray out the back of my shop. I fashioned a swamp cooler filter in the back of the booth in which i take outside and hose down before starting. This catches most of the spray solids. There's absolutely no need for a mask, this booth evacuates everything but the smell. Now, i know this doesnt answer the question posed so as for the spinning, which i have allways prefered. I can spin four cues in the booth which are chain and gear driven. In my experiance, by spinning the work piece an ideal speed, i can build the clear coat high enough to use 600 or rougher paper on the set up because an ideal speed will not allow the paint to run.
"There's absolutely no need for a mask, this booth evacuates everything but the smell."
This statement got my attention so I'll pass this along before anyone gets the wrong idea.
One of the nastiest components of auto-clear is a compound gas known as isocyanate.
It will destroy your nervous system and that may be one of it's milder attributes.
Iso is a by-product of the reaction btwn the clear & hardener.
It is tasteless, colorless and ODORless but is always present once the two parts are mixed.
What this means is that if you're smelling clear-coat finish, you're exposing yourself to iso.
Wear a mask. When you can smell paint, change the filters.
KJ
This statement got my attention so I'll pass this along before anyone gets the wrong idea.
One of the nastiest components of auto-clear is a compound gas known as isocyanate.
It will destroy your nervous system and that may be one of it's milder attributes.
Iso is a by-product of the reaction btwn the clear & hardener.
It is tasteless, colorless and ODORless but is always present once the two parts are mixed.
What this means is that if you're smelling clear-coat finish, you're exposing yourself to iso.
Wear a mask. When you can smell paint, change the filters.
KJ
I have found that spinning gives the best results for me.
I have a unit made up for the clear coating, and I set it up on an angle, to level out the average height on the bottom face.
The big diameter end is raised so that the small end and big end are about level.
I don't use very many rpm , about 20 or so. It is just what ever the gear reduce motor does.
Neil
I have a unit made up for the clear coating, and I set it up on an angle, to level out the average height on the bottom face.
The big diameter end is raised so that the small end and big end are about level.
I don't use very many rpm , about 20 or so. It is just what ever the gear reduce motor does.
Neil
No, No, No, No. I have a 3 phase 18 inch exhaust fan and I still wear a mask.
They are cheap health insurance. Do you think the smell is transmitted magically to your nose. It's particulate in the air, the air you are breathing, the air your lungs are filtering. Something else to consider, do you mix the clear in the booth with the fan running, do you clean the gun with the fan running. Do you cure the cues with the fan running.
http://www.coopersafety.com/product/3m-organic-vapor-p95-respirator-kit-1205.aspx
Less than the cost of 4 packs of cigarettes and you can replace the filters for about 12.00 if you shop around.
Geeeez.... now I'm confused (again).
I have watched countless utube videos where guys are clear coating all kinds of stuff in their garages, back yards, and perhaps their bathrooms.
Yes, they all wear a mask but they don't wear them long after spraying. I am spraying outdoors (weather permitting) and immediately coming back in the shop and letting the cue rotate slowly on my finish lathe.
I take off the mask when I get back inside and there is a pleasant aroma of finish in the air. I also don't wear the mask when cleaning the gun. Am I going to get even more jiggy than I am now?
I've seen people drive with a phone on their ear and a coffee on one hand.
Leave drying cues outside the shop for a few hours unless you have heavy
exhaust system.
Wear a mask when mixing and when cleaning the gun. Wear gloves too.
Better yet, get this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Supplied-fr...377&pid=100033&prg=1011&rk=1&sd=380153845245&
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Adventures in clear coat
I'll disagree with KJ. If you look at the recommended use of the filters, they talk about a schedule of use, since the iso has no smell that we can recgonize the carcoal in the filter will loose effetiveness before you can smell the other products. How long it lasts is really hard to tell, depends how much you use it and how you store it. I put it in a ziploc bag between uses, but I'm still guessing. I only occassionaly shoot car coat anymore, but even with the uv I use a mask. More for particulates than anything. Before the
year is out I will have a fresh air system. Only way to be really sure. As to the utube video's, remember, it's just someone with a camera. Who knows their training. If you go to a pro auto shop, you will see masks and ventilation in the mixing room. Most of the good ones now have fresh air systems. Lung transplants are hard to come by.
I'll disagree with KJ. If you look at the recommended use of the filters, they talk about a schedule of use, since the iso has no smell that we can recgonize the carcoal in the filter will loose effetiveness before you can smell the other products. How long it lasts is really hard to tell, depends how much you use it and how you store it. I put it in a ziploc bag between uses, but I'm still guessing. I only occassionaly shoot car coat anymore, but even with the uv I use a mask. More for particulates than anything. Before the
year is out I will have a fresh air system. Only way to be really sure. As to the utube video's, remember, it's just someone with a camera. Who knows their training. If you go to a pro auto shop, you will see masks and ventilation in the mixing room. Most of the good ones now have fresh air systems. Lung transplants are hard to come by.
Steve,
From a non-smoker, this is an interesting cost comparison you make - new filters to keep noxious fumes and particulates out of your lungs compared to the cost of 4 packs of cancer sticks that create noxious fumes and particulates that you intentionally inhale into your lungs.
Just yanking your chain, but the irony is still there!
Good cuemaking guys!
Gary
It's alright to disagree. That's what a good discussion is about.
If everyone were in total agreement there'd be no need for this conversation.
I'm aware of the use-life schedule of the filters; 24 hrs.
That will vary by user and manufacturer but generally 24 hrs.
I agree that placing the mask in a sealed plastic bag can extend it's useful life.
I'm not sure what your point of disagreement is though.
So I reread what I had written. I'm guessing this is it:
"When you can smell paint, change the filters."
That's basically saying that at that point, your filters have expired.
How much earlier they lost their effectiveness is anyone's guess.
That's why there's a manufacturer's recommendation given in hrs of use.
Does the presence of iso accelerate the degradation of the filters?
I don't believe so, no more than any of the other organics contained in the clear-coat.
What I was suggesting was that after you're done spaying and all that remains is the smell,
that doesn't mean you're out of the woods yet.
The iso (by itself) has no smell but it's always present in the vapors that you ARE smelling.
If you're smelling paint, you're subject to exposure. That was my point.
I shoot several times a week but always at the end of my day.
When I'm done, I leave the building. During the first few hrs. of curing, the finish
is off-gassing quite rapidly. It's generally the next day before I go back into the building.
KJ
Adventures in clear coat
The cigarette price comparision was a poor attempt at humor, but
then again. I knew(all dead) several cabinet shop finishers that both
smoked and shot catalyzed varnish with out a mask. Also knew a house painter that would sit on a 5 gal pail to smoke his cigarette right in the kitchen that he was spraying lacquer. He had to sit down about every 10 minutes, weezing like a steam engine. Didn't know his age, but pretty sure he didn't make it past 55.
KJ, I was just pointing out that you can be hurting you lungs before you can smell the finish. That's the tricky part with Isocynates.
The cigarette price comparision was a poor attempt at humor, but
then again. I knew(all dead) several cabinet shop finishers that both
smoked and shot catalyzed varnish with out a mask. Also knew a house painter that would sit on a 5 gal pail to smoke his cigarette right in the kitchen that he was spraying lacquer. He had to sit down about every 10 minutes, weezing like a steam engine. Didn't know his age, but pretty sure he didn't make it past 55.
KJ, I was just pointing out that you can be hurting you lungs before you can smell the finish. That's the tricky part with Isocynates.