A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

Rackemep · Dec 6, 2013

JCIN said:
The only way crazy works in sports is if its used as spice not the main course.

I dont mind how Earl acted really. He did what he was supposed to do. Everyone who knows how things work knows he was there to do what he does. The others were there to balance him out and by doing the same BS Earl does they failed in that job. One crazy eccentric on the squad is cute. A bunch of dudes dropping F bombs and whining about rolls just makes people turn off.

I see your point about knowing that you're going to get "crazy" with Earl, but to say that Earl can act that way and then say the rest of the team shouldn't is wrong to me...

Earl is an AMAZING pool player and I really enjoy watching him PLAY <---key word there....Same with Dennis and Rodney but they should all be held to the same standard of professionalism especially on a stage where they are going to represent their country...My hats off to Johnny and Shane for at least staying composed and classy.

westcoast · Dec 6, 2013

JCIN said:
I refuse to live in a place where the idea of freedom is viewed as a quaint idea not for everyone. .

This is true of the UK?

There is significantly more upward mobility in the UK and many parts of Europe than here.

I don't fully understand what you mean by this comment

NYC cue dude · Dec 6, 2013

westcoast said:
This is true of the UK?

There is significantly more upward mobility in the UK and many parts of Europe than here.

I don't fully understand what you mean by this comment

Speech and firearm restrictions make you a subject, not a citizen.

westcoast · Dec 6, 2013

mikeyfrost said:
There you go making sense.

"Why is everyone so upset about the Mosconi cup? Both teams got what they wanted team America wanted that check and the Europeans wanted to win." ~ James Roberts

I think the US wanted to win. They were trying hard. Things just didn't roll their way (the majority of the rolls favored the Europeans), the Euros took advantage to their credit, and the Americans got frustrated. Should they have controlled their tempers better? Yes. However, I think we all know how frustrating pool can be when the balls don't roll your way.

Perhaps their poor behavior was because they wanted to win very badly and when they didn't they increasingly showed their frustration. I think they should have behaved better, but I can understand their anger. I have sometimes behaved in ways I've later regretted when things aren't going my way in pool. I think most of us can relate to that.

westcoast · Dec 6, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
Speech and firearm restrictions make you a subject, not a citizen.

TO what exact speech restrictions are you referring in the UK or Europe?

Lack of firearm restrictions has not worked out very well for the US. The murder rate is far higher here than in most European countries.

Island Drive · Dec 6, 2013

westcoast said:
I think the US wanted to win. They were trying hard. Things just didn't roll their way (the majority of the rolls favored the Europeans), the Euros took advantage to their credit, and the Americans got frustrated. Should they have controlled their tempers better? Yes. However, I think we all know how frustrating pool can be when the balls don't roll your way.

Perhaps their poor behavior was because they wanted to win very badly and when they didn't they increasingly showed their frustration. I think they should have behaved better, but I can understand their anger. I have sometimes behaved in ways I've later regretted when things aren't going my way in pool. I think most of us can relate to that.

I've won and lost to three different individuals in match play that were part of this team. Having played in Many pro events over the years and supported three different Pro tours, this behavior I've seen often and it'll never be acceptable in my book, or many of my peers. In amateur events they let it slide, and I've been complicit, tho Not very often. In pro events, it's flat outta line and I feel sorry for JA kid having to see/feel and hear this type of behavior, it reeks of man child, immaturity, and lack of parenting.

Celtic · Dec 6, 2013

JCIN said:
Earl was pure poison for this team. I honestly don't think they ever had a chance to outrun that weight on their backs. He is simply a cancer for any type of team. Mix that in with the already existing issues of some of the players and its easy to see how something like this came to pass.

Earl was certainly as bad as everyone expected him to be but lets not pretend that he acts alone in this. We had Rodney ask Darren if he wanted to step outside for a fight right on live TV. His casual attitude in the last match basically said "pfft, whatever, lets get this over with and get paid". He disrespects the sport and the event just as much as Earl ever did.

In his first year in the Mosconi Hatch showed some heart and some respect for the sport when things were going well but he certainly showed the other side of the coin when things went backwards and he started losing. He became Earl's replacement arguing with the crowd.

Archer? His attitude towards the game is clear, it is his way or the highway. He keeps in the good graces with Matchroom because this is basically a yearly ongoing steady paycheck for him and as long as he plays nice it is clear he gets to call a lot of the shots behind the scenes.

SVB? I don't even know if he wants to be there. He is the only guy on the team that puts out a solid effort and that can play at the world class level that the MC requires, and he bloody well knows it. He goes into the event knowing that he can play with anyone from team Europe and knowing that it does not make a lick of difference because his teammates don't put 1/10th of the amount of effort into their game that he does. He knows he is too good for the USA team and that is clearly written on his face and in his actions over the whole event. He is a great player but he has no ambition to be a team player on the Mosconi Cup teams as they stand.

Earl? He is a train wreck. As a once huge fan of Earl I am about ready to watch old videos of him playing in his prime when he was semi-normal and did not flake out every bloody match and never watch him play live again. His game when in stroke is still awesome to watch but at this point I think the extra BS you have to see and listen to in order to see the brief moments of the worlds greatest rotation pool player to ever pick up a stick are simply not worth it.

The whole US team was unworthy of being there this year.

If I were Matchroom Sports next year would be the first annual Reyes Cup, Team Europe vs Team Asia. I would simply replace the USA, the Mosconi cup would cease to exist.

America is one of the worst supporters of pool as it is, we have almost no fans, the sport is dead, pool halls are closing, ect...

You run the Reyes Cup and you get a HUGE fan base from China, Taiwan, the Philipines, ect... to watch and be invested in the event and you get a world class match between two monster teams full of world beaters and the two largest areas of fan support on this planet for pool today to tune in.

ribdoner · Dec 6, 2013

Celtic said:
Earl was certainly as bad as everyone expected him to be but lets not pretend that he acts alone in this. We had Rodney ask Darren if he wanted to step outside for a fight right on live TV. His casual attitude in the last match basically said "pfft, whatever, lets get this over with and get paid". He disrespects the sport and the event just as much as Earl ever did.

In his first year in the Mosconi Hatch showed some heart and some respect for the sport when things were going well but he certainly showed the other side of the coin when things went backwards and he started losing. He became Earl's replacement arguing with the crowd.

Archer? His attitude towards the game is clear, it is his way or the highway. He keeps in the good graces with Matchroom because this is basically a yearly ongoing steady paycheck for him and as long as he plays nice it is clear he gets to call a lot of the shots behind the scenes.

SVB? I don't even know if he wants to be there. He is the only guy on the team that puts out a solid effort and that can play at the world class level that the MC requires, and he bloody well knows it. He goes into the event knowing that he can play with anyone from team Europe and knowing that it does not make a lick of difference because his teammates don't put 1/10th of the amount of effort into their game that he does. He knows he is too good for the USA team and that is clearly written on his face and in his actions over the whole event. He is a great player but he has no ambition to be a team player on the Mosconi Cup teams as they stand.

Earl? He is a train wreck. As a once huge fan of Earl I am about ready to watch old videos of him playing in his prime when he was semi-normal and did not flake out every bloody match and never watch him play live again. His game when in stroke is still awesome to watch but at this point I think the extra BS you have to see and listen to in order to see the brief moments of the worlds greatest rotation pool player to ever pick up a stick are simply not worth it.

The whole US team was unworthy of being there this year.

If I were Matchroom Sports next year would be the first annual Reyes Cup, Team Europe vs Team Asia. I would simply replace the USA, the Mosconi cup would cease to exist.

America is one of the worst supporters of pool as it is, we have almost no fans, the sport is dead, pool halls are closing, ect...

You run the Reyes Cup and you get a HUGE fan base from China, Taiwan, the Philipines, ect... to watch and be invested in the event and you get a world class match between two monster teams full of world beaters and the two largest areas of fan support on this planet for pool today to tune in.

how bout "cup" teams from ASIA, EUROPE and the AMERICA'S with the "CHAMPS" playing the winner of a preliminary round

BeiberLvr · Dec 6, 2013

Celtic said:
Earl was certainly as bad as everyone expected him to be but lets not pretend that he acts alone in this. We had Rodney ask Darren if he wanted to step outside for a fight right on live TV. His casual attitude in the last match basically said "pfft, whatever, lets get this over with and get paid". He disrespects the sport and the event just as much as Earl ever did.

In his first year in the Mosconi Hatch showed some heart and some respect for the sport when things were going well but he certainly showed the other side of the coin when things went backwards and he started losing. He became Earl's replacement arguing with the crowd.

Archer? His attitude towards the game is clear, it is his way or the highway. He keeps in the good graces with Matchroom because this is basically a yearly ongoing steady paycheck for him and as long as he plays nice it is clear he gets to call a lot of the shots behind the scenes.

SVB? I don't even know if he wants to be there. He is the only guy on the team that puts out a solid effort and that can play at the world class level that the MC requires, and he bloody well knows it. He goes into the event knowing that he can play with anyone from team Europe and knowing that it does not make a lick of difference because his teammates don't put 1/10th of the amount of effort into their game that he does. He knows he is too good for the USA team and that is clearly written on his face and in his actions over the whole event. He is a great player but he has no ambition to be a team player on the Mosconi Cup teams as they stand.

Earl? He is a train wreck. As a once huge fan of Earl I am about ready to watch old videos of him playing in his prime when he was semi-normal and did not flake out every bloody match and never watch him play live again. His game when in stroke is still awesome to watch but at this point I think the extra BS you have to see and listen to in order to see the brief moments of the worlds greatest rotation pool player to ever pick up a stick are simply not worth it.

The whole US team was unworthy of being there this year.

If I were Matchroom Sports next year would be the first annual Reyes Cup, Team Europe vs Team Asia. I would simply replace the USA, the Mosconi cup would cease to exist.

America is one of the worst supporters of pool as it is, we have almost no fans, the sport is dead, pool halls are closing, ect...

You run the Reyes Cup and you get a HUGE fan base from China, Taiwan, the Philipines, ect... to watch and be invested in the event and you get a world class match between two monster teams full of world beaters and the two largest areas of fan support on this planet for pool today to tune in.

I think Shane would love to be on the team, if as you said, his teammates had the same drive and dedication that he has.

Someone in another thread (or maybe this one) mentioned Team Europe vs. Team World, and I like that idea as well.

Team Europe could be Thorsten, Appleton, Souqet, Feijen, and Immonen/Boyes
Team World could be Shane, Orcullo, Pagulayan, Bustamante, and Ko Pin Yi/Biado/Wu.

fat Albert · Dec 6, 2013

JAM said:
While I appreciate the thread, reading these same thoughts over and over again is like pounding the members of Team USA with a hammer after they have lost. Don't you think they feel bad enough as it is? What else can be said after reading the hundreds of posts last night and today about what a POS the American pro is?

It is tragic that the state of pool is what it is here in the America, but there seems to be a caste system. The BCA members should be held accountable for letting professional pool die in the manner which it has.

You wonder why American pros are the way they are? Because there's no tour, no BCA support, no WPA support, nothing.

So while we can continue to verbally tar and feather the members of Team USA and other American pro players, it's not entirely the fault of these pros.

Nothing will change if we keep hammering in the same thoughts, stereotyping all American pros. If the American pros had something to shoot for, you'd see a different American pro. That's my perspective of the Mosconi Cup.

BCA needs to have their authority ripped away from them, and some new entity needs to take the reigns. When that unmentionable IPT came to the fore, the pros acted and dressed professionally. It's not so far-fetched to think that if they had something ot shoot for, they'd conduct themselves differently.

The post was not about knocking the Americans for losing but the. Behavior of a few. I was there front row heard it all saw the antics the post was very true. It is both far fetched to think they would act different" if they had something to shoot for" they had something to shoot for this week playing for their. Country , all expenses paid. And a 15 thousand payday . And in closing I didn't smell any tar nor did I see any feathers in the post

CueTable Help

Maniac · Dec 6, 2013

JCIN said:
The weather sucks, the food is horrible and I refuse to live in a place where the idea of freedom is viewed as a quaint idea not for everyone.

Other than that...totally an option.

Yeah....and on top of that, you wouldn't be doing much of what you're doing in your avatar over there, either.

Maniac (#*$#*%@* anti-gunners!!!!)

JB Cases · Dec 6, 2013

Team pro pool was tried in 90s.

I think that it would be awesome to have two or three cups with the Mosconi being the championship one. The reigning Mosconi champions are in and everyone else plays to get to them.

Zbotiman · Dec 6, 2013

Compasion

JAM said:
While I appreciate the thread, reading these same thoughts over and over again is like pounding the members of Team USA with a hammer after they have lost. Don't you think they feel bad enough as it is? What else can be said after reading the hundreds of posts last night and today about what a POS the American pro is?

It is tragic that the state of pool is what it is here in the America, but there seems to be a caste system. The BCA members should be held accountable for letting professional pool die in the manner which it has.

You wonder why American pros are the way they are? Because there's no tour, no BCA support, no WPA support, nothing.

So while we can continue to verbally tar and feather the members of Team USA and other American pro players, it's not entirely the fault of these pros.

Nothing will change if we keep hammering in the same thoughts, stereotyping all American pros. If the American pros had something to shoot for, you'd see a different American pro. That's my perspective of the Mosconi Cup.

BCA needs to have their authority ripped away from them, and some new entity needs to take the reigns. When that unmentionable IPT came to the fore, the pros acted and dressed professionally. It's not so far-fetched to think that if they had something ot shoot for, they'd conduct themselves differently.

One has only to listen, and your compassion can almost be "felt!" But here's the thing, when you try as many different "FAILURES" as U.S. players have executed for the last 30 odd years alone, how can anyone expect R-E-S-P-E-C-T now, as it all melts away beneath them? (The old, if you do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result=definition of insanity!!)
It ain't like nobodies givin' them a chance to "win some cheese," guess that's not enough? I wonder what most baseball pro's from the 50's would think about the entitled outlook some players display, today?

Seems like the roads gettin' a bit rockier from here in?

Rackemep · Dec 6, 2013

JB Cases said:
Team pro pool was tried in 90s.

I think that it would be awesome to have two or three cups with the Mosconi being the championship one. The reigning Mosconi champions are in and everyone else plays to get to them.

That would be cool!...It would certainly make our guys (USA) have to step up and earn their spot at the MC...As much as I would hate to see team USA not in the MC it may be just what we need to get our guys back in gear. I love to watch GREAT pool and I will always stand behind team USA...now if I could just get my cake and eat it too hahaha....

dr9ball · Dec 6, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
We were all witness to the savage beating the Euros delivered upon team USA. That's not what this thread is about. It's not about who won or who lost.

I think we can all agree that the Mosconi Cup is the mostly widely viewed TV broadcast for our sport, each and every year. It is watched by fans, other pro players and industry members alike. If you are interested in pool, its appointment viewing.

It took me a few days to put my finger on it, but there was something bothering me during these matches, beyond the disparity of the score. I watched and didn't like what I saw. It's safe to say that most of our industry members felt the same way. Coming from the American side, we oozed complete unprofessionalism. The teams body language conveyed contempt, entitlement and disinterest. The vulgar language was even worse. That the commentators had to, on multiple occasions, apologize to the viewers for this behavior, is incomprehensible. Then of course, there was Earl. He personally attacked his opponents, verbally, during multiple matches. He cheated, by intentionally sharking the other players. As has been said before, he embarrassed himself, his team, the promoters, the sport and his country. What made all of this look worse, if its even possible, is the exemplary behavior of the European team. They did everything right.

The point I'm trying to make is that the impression team USA made in public, was devastating. Who in their right mind would consider investing in American pool? Who would ever consider sponsoring anything pool related, after watching our "elite representatives" behave the way they did? Badi Nazhat just very recently addressed the problems of American Pool. Mark Griffin has as well. Those that understood what they were saying is that the problems center around unprofessionalism and disrespect. As the American pool scene crumbles around them, the players still refuse to head the warnings.

It is indeed a very sad day for American pool. Not because team USA lost. But because they continue in failing to learn from their mistakes.

I agree with much of what you have to say. To me there was no semblance of a "TEAM" for the USA. It was rather, nothing more than a collection of individuals who happen to be professional pool players.

Perhaps it is that which caused our defeat. The Euros were a "TEAM" and came to compete as a team and they won as a team. Sadly it seems the US Representatives came to collect a check for showing up.

I'm not usually one to speak on such matters especially with a disparaging tone but that's how it appeared to this viewer.

mia · Dec 6, 2013

dr9ball said:
I agree with much of what you have to say. To me there was no semblance of a "TEAM" for the USA. It was rather, nothing more than a collection of individuals who happen to be professional pool players.

Perhaps it is that which caused our defeat. The Euros were a "TEAM" and came to compete as a team and they won as a team. Sadly it seems the US Representatives came to collect a check for showing up.

I'm not usually one to speak on such matters especially with a disparaging tone but that's how it appeared to this viewer.

And this one as well. Kinda sad really.

PETROBOY · Dec 6, 2013

JCIN said:
So based on this thinking I should stage all TAR matches, rig the outcomes and set up fake fights and drama?

Cause thats what makes money and draws viewers right?

If you get snooki to play the one with big boobs you would make big bucks lol

NYC cue dude · Dec 6, 2013

dr9ball said:
I agree with much of what you have to say. To me there was no semblance of a "TEAM" for the USA. It was rather, nothing more than a collection of individuals who happen to be professional pool players.

Perhaps it is that which caused our defeat. The Euros were a "TEAM" and came to compete as a team and they won as a team. Sadly it seems the US Representatives came to collect a check for showing up.

I'm not usually one to speak on such matters especially with a disparaging tone but that's how it appeared to this viewer.

This event appeared on Sky Tv. We were fortunate enough to catch the stream, but this was televised throughout Europe and beyond. Between games there were commercial breaks. They are the ones paying the players and Matchroom. They pay the bills. Has anyone considered how they feel about the swearing on live TV? How about Rodney asking England's favorite pool player to fight in the parking lot? Or Earl berating Karl for the duration of their match? How many viewers called into Sky Network to lodge complaints for the profanity? It's actually a crime there to use profanity in public (although hardly ever prosecuted). I'm sure there were no shortage of complaints about the "barbaric, uncouth and unrefined" Americans. I heard that for the first time ever that Barry Hearn was actually embarrassed by the Americans behavior.

SakuJack · Dec 7, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
How many viewers called into Sky Network to lodge complaints for the profanity?

Very, very few I'd guess. We have our fair share of hysterics who like complaining about things, but I doubt many of them would be tuning into to the Mosconi cup.

Not that I'm saying the US team covered themselves in glory, mind.

Pathetic Shark · Dec 7, 2013

NYC cue dude said:
It's actually a crime there to use profanity in public (although hardly ever prosecuted).

Is it? It's a crime NOT to swear around my way, or so it would appear.

As to complaints, I doubt there will be any. Viewing figures would have been very small, and swearing for the British is practically compulsory from birth.

A different perspective on the Mosconi Cup

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