Why has no one beat Mosconi's high run?

itsfroze said:

I doubt that there's but a handful of players that even care, it's an old record in a dead game. In pool rooms you seldom see
people playing this game any more.mNobody goes around the Country doing exhibitions anymore, why, few would show up
to watch. People today want a faster paced game that's more exciting and that's just not Straight Pool.

There's many reasons why this hasn't been broken, but the main reason is most people just don't care. :grin:

Click to expand...

While I fully understand where you're coming from and partially agree, I don't think that's an entirely correct in terms of this record.

I think reason #1 is simply the lack of opportunity to properly document the run and satisfy the Guinness Book requirements.

Plenty of pros play and enjoy 14.1. And I think that if you gave an opportunity to set the record and they would know they'd go down in the Guinness Book of World Records in place of Willie Mosconi and cash several thousand $$ in the process, you'd have plenty of them attempting. Setting up an 8' table with 5" pockets at DCC / Open / Turning Stone type event might have some of those guys licking their chops...

Straight pool is hard. It is humbling. When played by experts, you can go a long time without a shot. In the South, where the humidity reigns, the balls don't separate well. Most pros don't play straight pool because there is no money in it, it is humbling how hard it is to play it at an elite level, and consequently, the public does not know much about straight pool these days. The few pros that play the game at an elite level are short sighted. The one pro that could beat the record would probably garner enormous publicity (at least for a pool player), but most are too busy trying to pay bills from day to day to look at the long term rewards of surpassing the 526 mark. It makes me chuckle to see people talk about putting up a quarter of a million dollars or a million dollars to break the mark. Most players have never sniffed such a payday in their whole lives. I imagine if you paid a top player a modest salary with a victory bonus to try to break the record in your pool room, and set up the equipment to be fair/easy, he would have incentive enough to try to beat the record. To that end, I would be willing to offer $5,000 the first person who can beat the record in 2015 and invite others to match my pledge. I will defer to straight pool experts to define the terms of the challenge.

Joe Long
Baton Rouge, LA

BRLongArm said:

Straight pool is hard. It is humbling. When played by experts, you can go a long time without a shot. In the South, where the humidity reigns, the balls don't separate well. Most pros don't play straight pool because there is no money in it, it is humbling how hard it is to play it at an elite level, and consequently, the public does not know much about straight pool these days. The few pros that play the game at an elite level are short sighted. The one pro that could beat the record would probably garner enormous publicity (at least for a pool player), but most are too busy trying to pay bills from day to day to look at the long term rewards of surpassing the 526 mark. It makes me chuckle to see people talk about putting up a quarter of a million dollars or a million dollars to break the mark. Most players have never sniffed such a payday in their whole lives. I imagine if you paid a top player a modest salary with a victory bonus to try to break the record in your pool room, and set up the equipment to be fair/easy, he would have incentive enough to try to beat the record. To that end, I would be willing to offer $5,000 the first person who can beat the record in 2015 and invite others to match my pledge. I will defer to straight pool experts to define the terms of the challenge.

Joe Long
Baton Rouge, LA

Click to expand...

-----------------------------------------------------
I greatly respect your willingness to offer the above amount and with the eventual $$$$$ collaboration of like-minded donors it does seem like a route that might stimulate a number of players to attempt to break the Mosconi 526 record, once conditions are spelled out.

I would think that a *provably unedited* (3 or 4 hour?) video record of the achievement would be one of the basic conditions, no matter where or by whom the recording was made. Does that seem like correct reasoning to you. I'd hope that such a recording could serve as an objective witness if proven to be unedited. Not sure if a hypothetical group of multi-thousand dollar prize contributors could come to an agreement about videotape-as-allowable-witness.

What are your thoughts?

Arnaldo

nineballsafety8 said:

Yes there have been unconfirmed runs that may have beat him... Not my question.

Why in todays state of the game, when competition is tougher than ever... Why do we not have umpteen players capable of running 500+ balls?

Was he really that good? Table conditions? Nobody plays straight pool anymore? Etc.

Please share your thoughts. (I am using this question as a survey in my sociology class, so your answeres are greatly appreciated)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

unconfirmed runs. now there's a good one. I had 800 but can't confirm it. With all the science, $800 cues, super balls, jump cues, break cues, can even wear a T shirt now that can't be tucked in the back, super cloths and cushions, 147 layered tip from a Unicorn, and last but not least a GLOVE!!! God help those sweaty palms. Imagine the Gods. like Mosconi, they played in a suit and tie and shoes. Not moonwalk rubber. And now 9 ball run to 247 in an hour. Or the sloth run to 1 in a day. Most of these guys are no fun suns. No character. The Ritalin era. Boring,. ESPN tried and crashed. Trick shooting is popular now with a blonde. These guys couldn't stand up for >.500 ball run. Mosconi could be on life support and still adding to that run. These guys are getting paid exactly what they deserve. 1/3 of them qualify for Fed help.

=============

arnaldo said:

There are literally tens of thousands of such tables in the homes of most of our ball-banger less-serious-about-pool friends, neighbors, and friends-of-friends around the country.

Click to expand...

Here is what you are missing. This was the highest run Mosconi ever made in 70+ years of attempts. Nobody is going to show up somewhere and beat this record in 4 hours on the first attempt. Yet with your "just go to a friend's house or a friend of a friend's house" talk it sounds like you are failing to realize that it is going to take some time. Depending on who you listen to, the time it will take for someone to break the record will be measured in months or years, and some think it can't ever be broken even if every pro alive today spent the rest of their lives trying. But the one thing they all agree on is that it isn't going to be broken in a day or two.

With that in mind, it just isn't practical to be spending months (or years, or lifetimes) at random people's houses, or even at a pool hall for that matter, and always lugging around video equipment and tripods and such. The only reasonable way to do it would be to get a similar 8 ft with buckets at your home, so that you can make the attempts when you want, call it a day when you want, eat when you want, come and go as needed, and leave you video equipment all set up in place so you aren't having to drag it around everywhere. This obviously means the expense of buying the table, and having it set up. It also means having to get rid of the table you already have.

It also means giving up your income and living off savings because with all this straight pool play on an 8 ft with buckets their game is going to suffer significantly and they are going to have almost no chance at ever cashing in any events.

So can anyone confirm that this 8' tables had "buckets" for pockets?

That's what it says on Wikipedia so it must be true. Right?

/sarcasm off

leto1776 said:

So can anyone confirm that this 8' tables had "buckets" for pockets?

Click to expand...

=============

BRLongArm said:

To that end, I would be willing to offer $5,000 the first person who can beat the record in 2015 and invite others to match my pledge. I will defer to straight pool experts to define the terms of the challenge.

Joe Long
Baton Rouge, LA

Click to expand...

Generous offer. Because of the hassle and expense involved in trying to break the record, and the lack of income during that time (because you will have little chance of cashing in any other events if spending all your time on loose 8 foots playing straight pool), it would take significantly more money than this. I'm guessing a minimum of $30,000 before anyone would be willing to give it any prolonged or serious effort.

John Schmidt said he would be willing to put in a months effort trying to break it for somewhere around $20,000 to $25,000 payoff I think it was. And for people to believe that the money would in fact actually get paid out and for people to take it seriously the money would need to be escrowed with someone known and trusted in the industry (if enough funds can even get pledged obviously). I would suggest Bob Jewett if he were willing, as he is known, trusted, has been doing the straight pool hi run events for years, and is well connected so he could get the word out to anyone that has any type of chance of breaking it.

As far as the terms, I think what makes the most sense is that the whole run would have to be on film uninterrupted and ideally with music on in the background. Two video cameras should be used and set up on opposite ends or sides of the table. If one of the cameras ran out of memory or shuts off for some other reason, the other one is still filming and between the two of them you still have the entire run on film without any interruption in filming. If the whole run is on film uninterrupted, it should be pretty easy to see if it was edited in any way. And if music is playing in the background, and if two cameras were filming it, the possibility of it being edited is all but eliminated.

Again, with all due respect to today's pros, if anyone claims he can brake the record but won't do it unless enough money is offered worth doing it for, that doesn't make any sense.
If anyone already feels he can do it, doing it won't hurt his overall pool activities.
And if he won't do it, what does he have to lose, besides some time getting paid for not actually doing it?...
If anyone claims he can brake this record, he should just do it, or better put his money where his mouth is, or just stop claiming anything at all, simple as that.
PS Since time frame is mentioned, Mosconi here states (at the end) he did it in about 2h and 20min.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E

Step 1: find out what would satisfy Guinness to satisfy their documentation needs to make the run valid. Need to know the video requirements, # of live witnesses and their credential requirements, how can the run start? (ideal break ball start?) That kind of stuff.

Step 2: Work with a sponsor and promoter to coordinate setting up a relatively Mosconi-like 8' table at an event. maybe with free stream. Start with a number like $5k or so. (maybe Red Bull, cue, cloth or table manufacturer? LOL!)

Step 3: Each player who attempts the challenge must contribute a paltry $5 donation to grow the jackpot. Could also raise money selling stream access? I'd pay $5 to have access to watch that table for the duration of an event.

Step 4: Set it up each year and let the jackpot grow,

Step 5: I predict we'd see a new world record inside of 5 years, especially once the jackpot gets into 5 figures.

Somebody please do this!!!!

nineballsafety8 said:

Yes there have been unconfirmed runs that may have beat him... Not my question.

Why in todays state of the game, when competition is tougher than ever... Why do we not have umpteen players capable of running 500+ balls?

Was he really that good? Table conditions? Nobody plays straight pool anymore? Etc.

Please share your thoughts. (I am using this question as a survey in my sociology class, so your answeres are greatly appreciated)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

There are no pool tables left with huge pockets; it is hard to do with today's pockets.

leto1776 said:

So can anyone confirm that this 8' tables had "buckets" for pockets?

Click to expand...

This is what WIKI says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Mosconi

"Mosconi set the world record by running 526 consecutive balls without a miss during a straight pool exhibition in Springfield, Ohio on March 19–20, 1954. To this day the record has not been toppled and many speculate it may never be bested. A handwritten and notarized affidavit[12] with the signatures of more than 35 eyewitnesses exists as proof of this feat.

The record was set on a 4 × 8 foot Brunswick table with 5 1/4 inch corner pockets at the East High Billiard Club. Today's standard for tables may be considered more difficult to play on than this exhibition table in the sense that longer shots are required (today's standard tables are 9 x 4 1/2 ft) with 4 1/2 to 4 3/4 inch pockets, but today's tables may be considered easier to play on in the sense that there is more room for the balls to spread, creating unfettered shots. Mosconi competed successfully on 4 1/2 × 9 and 5 x 10 ft tables. The 526-ball record just happened to be on a 4 × 8 ft table, a size seldom used in professional play, but used for the billiard club exhibition that day. In fact, the room owner expected the exhibition to take place on the room's 9 foot table. That table was not a Brunswick, so Willie was required to play on one of the Brunswick 8 foot tables."

Now we need to point out a few other things:
1) Willie was born in 1913 and the run was in 1954...(40+ years old)
2) Willie started playing when he was a kid...played Ralph Greanleaf in exhibition when 6 years old
3) Predominately played 14.1 throughout his career

So, Willie was playing predominately 14.1 as a PROFESSION for 30 years and his HIGHEST run was 526 and he was considered the BEST pool player EVER by MANY.

What is the odds of a player today less than 40 years old who plays 14.1 rarely beating that record? Everybody will say the table was EASY! Well if it was so EASY, then why didn't Willie run 900?

I think it may be one of those "fluke" days that may NEVER be repeated...but, who knows?

Aloha.

Petros Andrikop said:

... PS Since time frame is mentioned, Mosconi here states (at the end) he did it in about 2h and 20min.....

Click to expand...

He says 2 hr. and 10 min. in his autobiography. At least the two reports are close to each other.

hang-the-9 said:

You know there is an option to actually do a survey with voting buttons? It's probably the tougher equipment but who knows, maybe it's just too tough to run so many balls. I mean for the home run record it took steroids to make that happen.

Click to expand...

and wasn't it 8 more games?

These 9 ball characters. They play an easy game of 9 ball compared to straight pool. And lets give em same equipment as Mosconi played with. No break cues, jump cues, 1 layer tip, gloves, jacket and tie. and 8' table. R U kidden!

Maris never beat Ruth's record! 61 in 162 games does not equal 61 in 154 games. Modern math just to make moron's feel better.

I didn't miss any of your points PP9. Just factually answered your rhetorical question asking "where would a potential record-breaker find an 8-footer for any given attempt":
-------------------------------------------------------
(Quoting point #5. "Even if a top pro wanted to spend time on an 8 ft table with bucket pockets (which they don't), where would they even find one? They certainly don't have one as their home table, and there may or may not even be one in a pool hall in their area. If they were going to try to break the record, they would either be stuck in a pool hall somewhere for their attempts, or they would have to buy an 8 ft table with bucket pockets for their home. And getting one for their home probably means having to get rid of whatever table they already have. It would be hugely inconvenient and costly just to get access to similar equipment to try to break the record on."
--------------------------------------------------------
The logistics or practicality of every one of the player's attempts to break the record are realistically of concern only to the high-level players and any table owner excitedly hoping to watch (and videotape) all of any given player's attempt sessions. Again, there are tens of thousands of such tables in the US alone.

Before I got my Diamond 9-footer I used to have a lesser-brand 8-footer with 5" bucket pockets and would have hugely welcomed any and all visits by Schmidt, Hohmann, or any respected, (and respectable), pro you might name anytime they wished to give Mosconi's record a try. It's a lead-pipe cinch that hundreds of homeowner folks (plus Moose, Elks, VFW's, retirement communities), with a rec room 8-footer in any given region would welcome such sessions by any respected pro.

For Mosconi-rapid quick-paced 14.1 players like Schmidt, Hohmann, Ortmann, Stephan Cohen, Thomas Engert, and countless other pros there's not the least doubt that the record would be surpassed on any given 8-footer with 5-inch pockets were there a guaranteed, collectively-raised and escrowed prize fund, and not least -- with a small portion of the prize fund and legally agreed upon royalty percentage points of any eventuating DVD distributions going to the table lender/provider.

Henry Ford's often cited comment applies equally to the practicality of finding a table as well as to a top-level 14.1 modern player's ability to surpass 526:

"If you think you can, or think you can't . . . you're right."

We're not talking about any specific multi-hour session resulting in the historic, camcorder-certified (provably unedited) record-breaker -- we're (more accurately I'm) talking about the certainty of the run happening via the very practical means described above. The means I've described are impractical only to shortsighted naysayers. Fully fund and escrow the prize in any developed country and the pros domestically and internationally will find time for some record-attempt sessions.

Arnaldo

Enough

I've read enough of this thread, as well as those on the same topic that have preceded it. Some people will never accept Mosconi's talent. For some reason, they are not comfortable with someone from the era of 14:1 having such skill.

The simple fact is that no one has ever broken Mosconi's record.

To speculate, create hypothetical situations and scenarios, criticize the equipment, the table, etc., etc. is no different than any competitor in any other sport using the word "if".

"If" has no value.

Like or not, have respect for the game of straight pool or not, have belief in his skills and abilities or not, Willie Mosconi's record still stands.