Moderators Please Change your Rules in the F/S Wanted Section

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

Kick Shot Aficionado
Silver Member
Bigkahuna said:
What happened is laid out in post 1 of this thread. There is no "rosier picture".

I listed an item at $200 and apparently it is fairly rare to see them for sale. In fact, I could not find a sold one on Ebay. Apparently it is worth as much as $400. Yes, I did change to best offer and also raise the price.

I put this thread up because if it was so apparent about what I should have done it should be a rule.

The sale thread was closed because there were angry unreasonable people making unreasonble statements. As you can probabaly tell they are posting here now.

I will maintain my opinion that a seller has the right to accept and refuse any offer for any reason including price, shipping terms or because you think someone is a douche.

I am in total agreement with someone who said I would burn it before selling to some people in there.

As soon as two guys started saying I was first to say "I will take it" meant there was an agreement before I even read their PM I said in the back of my mind, oh this is how it works here. Neither of those guys were going to get that item period.

From there on I felt like I was standing up amongst a bunch of zombies holding up fresh meat.
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I really think there is no need to dictate morality and ethics in the forum rules. You either possess those or you don't.

You put up a case for $200 that was worth maybe $250 - $300 in its condition. It was not like you unwittingly listed a Gus cue for $800.

When you had two people telling you "I'll Take It", like for instance me, then you had an ethical duty to work it out with them. Your op, prior to you editing it after the fact, said nothing about shipping so you added that you needed to collect shipping. I then, and once again pm'd you saying "I'll Take It" and this time provided you with my zip code for you to calculate shipping.

Btw, and worth mentioning, you are in southern Maine, I'm not far, in CT. After another az member saw the games you were playing on that thread, he contacted me and sold me his case for the $200 you were supposed to and the *cross country* shipping from San Diego is $28 via fedex.

Bottom line, you didn't do your due diligence in first establishing what your item was worth prior to listing it, though you weren't off by much, then you acted dishonorably for what, another $50?

And on top of it all, when many azers started calling BS on you, you started arguing with them pointing out how you work with lawyers and contract law this and that. It's an internet forum, bud, we don't need contract law lessons. Just conduct yourself with a little class, that's all.

Then, when you really had no good defense left you spun the outrageous story of how it actually wasn't your case after all, but rather it was a friends who was in financial trouble and that he needed heating oil for his house so you had a duty to get as much as you could. Good grief, man, do you take azers for a bunch of hayseeds?

What happened on the for sale forum was that you sold your reputation for about $50.

You can start as many new threads about it as you want but it won't change that fact.

Rules are simply guidelines; how we conduct ourselves is mostly to do with a moral compass that is inside us.

I know this was very petty in the scheme of things but I'm not a big fan of revisionist history.

best,
brian kc
 
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poolfool1957

poolfool1957

I know the pieces fit
Silver Member
Kickin' Chicken said:
I really think there is no need to dictate morality and ethics in the forum rules. You either possess those or you don't.

You put up a case for $200 that was worth maybe $250 - $300 in its condition. It was not like you unwittingly listed a Gus cue for $800.

When you had two people telling you "I'll Take It", like for instance me, then you had an ethical duty to work it out with them. Your op, prior to you editing it after the fact, said nothing about shipping so you added that you needed to collect shipping. I then, and once again pm'd you saying "I'll Take It" and this time provided you with my zip code for you to calculate shipping.

Btw, and worth mentioning, you are in southern Maine, I'm not far, in CT. After another az member saw the games you were playing on that thread, he contacted me and sold me his case for the $200 you were supposed to and the *cross country* shipping from San Diego is $28 via fedex.

Bottom line, you didn't do your due diligence in first establishing what your item was worth prior to listing it, though you weren't off by much, then you acted dishonorably for what, another $50?

And on top of it all, when many azers started calling BS on you, you started arguing with them pointing out how you work with lawyers and contract law this and that. It's an internet forum, bud, we don't need contract law lessons. Just conduct yourself with a little class, that's all.

Then, when you really had no good defense left you spun the outrageous story of how it actually wasn't your case after all, but rather it was a friends who was in financial trouble and that he needed heating oil for his house so you had a duty to get as much as you could. Good grief, man, do you take azers for a bunch of hayseeds?

What happened on the for sale forum was that you sold your reputation for about $50.

You can start as many new threads about it as you want but it won't change that fact.

Rules are simply guidelines; how we conduct ourselves is mostly to do with a moral compass that is inside us.

I know this was very petty in the scheme of things but I'm not a big fan of revisionist history.

best,
brian kc
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I was tempted to comment in the thread FS thread but I figured enough was already said.
Hat's off to KC for the above.
To the OP:
If you only have ONE I-Trade and a whole lot of people with a whole lot of I-Trades are giving helpful advice.....you may want to take note. With all of those I-Trades comes a lot of buying/selling experience here. That experience cost them a lot of money, time and the occasional headache.
The advice you were given in the beginning was to do the right thing or just cancel the sale completely and list it another day AFTER you've figured out how much to list it for. ALWAYS mention in the thread how much shipping will be or if it's included in the price.
You may be a great guy, but in this instance, you dropped the ball and then proceeded to make it worse by posting this new thread.
Suck it up man......take at least a shred of responsibility, man up and apologize for your part in the mess and build your reputation/integrity back up......or don't if you don't want to. It's your choice.
 
bullshot

bullshot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure about the back story on this. Did he make an agreement to sell the case to a specific person and then get offered more? In that case he should sell the case to that person for the original agreed upon price. a deals a deal.

Did he get offered more money before he agreed to sell it to whoever stated first that they would take the deal he was offering? If that's the case he should give the first person a chance to match the offer. If he isn't willing to pay what was offered it should be sold to whoever offered the higher price.

In my opinion a deal isn't made until both parties agree. If you list a cue for $100 you aren't obligated to sell it to the first person that chimes in wanting it. A good example of that is if you make a thread wanting to make a $100 bet you aren't obligated to give the action to the first person that wants it. A deal is only a deal if both people "shake" on it.
posting in a thread or sending a PM is simply extending your hand. It is not a handshake until the seller accepts the extended hand (agreeing to a deal).
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bigkahuna.....for probably the first time in your life, please do what you posted in one of your pathetic replies to the original thread......"LEAVE THE FORUM AS YOU STATED YOU WILL DO.".

Oh.....but wait a minute......that's right, I forgot........you only talk the walk.............Ah, I should have remembered.........just more of your phoney bullshit........you won't even go away as you proclaimed with such fake bravado.........just another lie from you which is now your hallmark.
 
nevermiss

nevermiss

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bullshot said:
I'm not sure about the back story on this. Did he make an agreement to sell the case to a specific person and then get offered more? In that case he should sell the case to that person for the original agreed upon price. a deals a deal.

Did he get offered more money before he agreed to sell it to whoever stated first that they would take the deal he was offering? If that's the case he should give the first person a chance to match the offer. If he isn't willing to pay what was offered it should be sold to whoever offered the higher price.

In my opinion a deal isn't made until both parties agree. If you list a cue for $100 you aren't obligated to sell it to the first person that chimes in wanting it. A good example of that is if you make a thread wanting to make a $100 bet you aren't obligated to give the action to the first person that wants it. A deal is only a deal if both people "shake" on it.
posting in a thread or sending a PM is simply extending your hand. It is not a handshake until the seller accepts the extended hand (agreeing to a deal).
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I cosign your take. It seems like some people wanted a to grab this item for below market rate, and are now upset that someone else offered a fair price for the item and the seller took it.

I also think that the only the OPs should be able to respond to their threads. I belong to another forum with this structure, and it is much more fair and civilized. In my opinion, it would cut back on most of the nonsense that goes on in there.
 
8

8onthebreak

THE WORLD IS YOURS
Silver Member
Bigkahuna said:
I posted an Item in the For Sale Wanted section a few days ago and apparently priced it too low. It was not my intention to do so nor was I trying to create an auction.

A couple of people offered the asking price one with $20 shipping (which wasn't enough) and one $200 I pay shipping. Neither of these offer were acceptable to me so I refused them both.

I decided I priced the item too low and changed to best offer. Apparently I kicked the hornets nest there.

The first two PMs I had started saying there was an agreement and that they were the first to respond and that they should get the item (there was no agreement by me to either person.)

Others were saying by the rules in that portion of AZB I needed to sell to the first person who PMd me.

I read the rules and saw that was not the case.

By the end of the day I had made an agreement with another person that was fair to me and fair to him. That person is the third PM and the item is no it's way to him. Yes it was for more than the initial price.

I had other offers afterwards but made an obligation to the third person to PM me.

What ensued after that was the worst experience I have had selling something in my life to include a good many personal attacks and construed scenarios about what really happened.

There were a good many members who had the "integrity" to personally attack me and also suggest in no uncertain terms what I am obligated to do.

So, may I suggest the following rules be added to the F/S Wanted section so there will not be confusion in the future.


If you have posted an item for sale you must sell to the first person who sends you a PM agreeing to your price.

A message saying "I'll take it" shall constitute an agreement of all terms and conditions of the sale.

The conditions of the sale including payment terms and shipping methods shall be determined by the buyer.

If you did not say plus shipping this must be included in the price.

If you said plus shipping the shipping cost shall be determined by the buyer.

You may not be allowed to refuse the first person who sent a PM even if you think it might be a bad experience.

No price adjustmnents shall be made in any sale upwards or downwards.

If you do not comply to these rules you must send the item to the first person who sent a PM for free with an apology for your abhorent and unethical behavoir.

Gentlemen I hope this avoids confusion in the future. Have a nice weekend.
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Big Kahuna,
Here's the way I see it. You listed the item for sale, were offered full price, and you state that you declined both full price offers. Then after getting these buyers interested by baiting them with a fictitious price, you change...not only the price, but also the format of the sale. From price, to auction. If you had changed the price...or the format, or anything BEFORE YOU GOT AN OFFER, you would have been ok.

One of the cool things about this site is that it is kind of old school, handshake, reputation-based...I believe that you did in fact sell your reputation for fifty dollars. Probably wasn't worth it. I believe that the right thing to do would be to have sold it for full price plus shipping....to the first poster that said they'd take it. If they didn't want to pay shipping, then I'd ask the 2nd poster that said they'd take it. You created a mess.

I'd like to see the forum stay reputation based. We don't need a bunch of lawyers turning the place into something that fits big city ideology. Are you legally liable? No. Are you a criminal...no. Did you damage your reputation...yes.

I believe you simply made a series of mistakes.
1. Listed item too low.
2. Declined 2 full price offers.
3. Raised price and changed terms while you had 2 buyers on the hook.
4. Defended your position instead of apologizing and working it out.
5. Attacked the moderators demanding them to change the rules of the forum.

If you need the fifty bucks, just let the affected people know that you made a mistake, and explain how important that 50 is to you, you'd probably be surprised at how they'd understand. If it's just that you wanted more money, and found out you could get it...then it would naturally piss them off.

I'm a small town guy. I like it that way. Treat people like you want to be treated. If you made the offer of FULL PRICE...how would you want to be treated?
 
cueaddicts

cueaddicts

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
This OP had some of my sympathy before he posted this bull-kaka post.

Can't believe this foolishness has been posted here. Grow up and accept the fact that you didn't do a good job planning out your own sale. :(
 
Mikey Town

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The time that it takes to write everything that the OP has written, trying to defend his position, isn't worth the extra $50 to me. It's strange how people don't value their time anymore.

If you list an item for sale, list an asking price and a buyer (that you do not have a prior negative relationship with) offers you the full price, then sell them the item... Simple.

I've sold an item, or two, for a bit less than I could have gotten before... I'm sure most of us have. It's a bit of a bummer, but I'm a man of my word, and the only one to blame is myself. After all, I didn't do enough research in the first place.

$50 less for an item to save myself the time it takes to defend my reputation on a forum full of people with strong opinions? Well worth it.
 
L

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree. Simply because someone is first to say. "I'll take it," I see no reason that the seller is automatically obligated to sell to that person immiediately. I've seen a few people get upset over that.

bullshot said:
I'm not sure about the back story on this. Did he make an agreement to sell the case to a specific person and then get offered more? In that case he should sell the case to that person for the original agreed upon price. a deals a deal.

Did he get offered more money before he agreed to sell it to whoever stated first that they would take the deal he was offering? If that's the case he should give the first person a chance to match the offer. If he isn't willing to pay what was offered it should be sold to whoever offered the higher price.

In my opinion a deal isn't made until both parties agree. If you list a cue for $100 you aren't obligated to sell it to the first person that chimes in wanting it. A good example of that is if you make a thread wanting to make a $100 bet you aren't obligated to give the action to the first person that wants it. A deal is only a deal if both people "shake" on it.
posting in a thread or sending a PM is simply extending your hand. It is not a handshake until the seller accepts the extended hand (agreeing to a deal).
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Bigkahuna

Bigkahuna

It's Good For Your Game!
Silver Member
I only made one agreement to sell to the person who is getting the case. If I had made any other agreements I would have honored it.

"I'll take it" does not constitute an agreement. An agreement is between two parties and only is it an agreement when that agreement is mutual.

I will continue to maintain that I have the right to accept of refuse offers.

I had no idea of the value of this thing. I put a price on it and with all the activity and even one person saying my price was" more than fair" it seemed it was worth more than I was asking.

Apparently there are people who have PMd me or who have stuck their neck out at risk of being beheaded who in this thread understand what I am saying. So there is no doubt that other people share my opinion.

I then switched to best offer in a later post. I also increased the sale price to give people a clue of the minimum offer. I think under the circumstances it was the fairest thing to do as I gave everyone an opportunity to buy it. Others took the position that there was agreement claiming they were the first to say "i'll take it" and then asked me if I am going to honor that "agreement'.

I have twice in my life made full asking price offers on a house to then not get the house. So, I get that people get angry as I have been on the other end myself. In fact, I thought I had a case against an agent as he did not even give me a response to my offer. An attorney told me that the seller has the right to accept or reject any offer for any reason. In fact, the seller or seller's agent has no obligation to even respond to my offer.

I have also paid more than asking price for a car that was priced below book. The guy had three people including me saying they would pay his asking price. They were very nice older people and were a bit shocked by the activity they were getting. His wife had one of the other guys on the phone in the house. I was right in front of him and said I would pay $500 more. We shook hands done deal. You know what the car was still a good value at that price.

II will caution anyone who is going to do their first sale in the F/S Wanted section to do whatever anyone says. It is quite apparent if you haven't done business there before you are immediately suspect of shady dealings and they are out to prove that. Anything you say you had better be prepared to prove and if you don't you are a liar.

There has not been one statement I made in any post in the past few days that was a fabrication. On a few occasions I have proven statements made which apparently do not hold any weight with angry unreasonable people. I have laid the whole thing out here and in the other thread and you can have your opinion about which side you are on. However, I can do without the insults and attacks from the fine people. in the F/S Wanted Section who have "morals and integrity".

Yes, It is a fact I did do this sale for a friend who needs money for heating oil. Not that it matters in the course of a sale as something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it period.
 
TheNewSharkster

TheNewSharkster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Bigkahuna said:
If you are going to post to this thread please take a minute to read post #1, #20 and #32.
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Let me get this straight. You offered a case for $200. Two people accepted your price. You then decide to charge more.

A man is only as good as his word. If your asking price was $200 that is your word and even if you later find out it should be more that is still what you were asking to be paid for the item.

Yes, you are not obligated to accept any offer. However, if you decline you should have a good reason. How would you like to walk into a store pick something out and then have the store refuse to honor the listed price? This is basically what you did.

I think you owe some people a aplogy.
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Azers....take note of all the names who defend BK and think he did nothing wrong.....although these individuals have absolutely nothing to do with BK's actions & statements, when they condone his actions, it signifies they might do the same thing in his circumstances and similarly express zero guilt or regret afterward. This is not a opinion poll on BK....he was completely underhanded and you just don't play cards with anyone that deals from the bottom of the deck or anyone that thinks doing so is okay......just my 3 cents and I'm sure I'll make some enemies from this post but so be it.

And Azers don't forget BK's notorious Post#34 that he bellowed about incessantly in so many of his retorts .......so now he says read post 1, 20, 32........Screw him, read them all since you can't trust BK....it's too bad the original thread & onslaught of criticism isn't available any longer and you could see how BK altered it to try covering his tracks but he got badly nailed on it. And Hunter's post was the best where he shredded all of BK's lies and misrepresentations. But it's been deleted by the Mods.......so this this turd wants to recreate the facts........what did Brian originally call this.... oh yeah, "Revisionist History".

Here's the bottom-line......Honesty is a full time virtue and BK only has part time morals that deserve public condemnation.....BK when are you going to walk the talk and leave quit the Forum as you stated???????????????
 
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trob

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes please take not to me as one of those people...unless I say yes and agree to sell it to you There is no agreement. Unless he agreed to sell it someone he did nothing wrong. I reserve the right to sell to whom ever i choose to sell it to..period


Bavafongoul said:
Azers....take note of all the names who defend BK and think he did nothing wrong.....although these individuals have absolutely nothing to do with BK's actions & statements, when they condone his actions, it signifies they might do the same thing in his circumstances and similarly express zero guilt or regret afterward. This is not a opinion poll on BK....he was completely underhanded and you just don't play cards with anyone that deals from the bottom of the deck or anyone that thinks doing so is okay......just my 3 cents and I'm sure I'll make some enemies from this post but so be it.

And Azers don't forget BK's notorious Post#34 that he bellowed about incessantly in so many of his retorts .......so now he says read post 1, 20, 32........Screw him, read them all since you can't trust BK....it's too bad the original thread & onslaught of criticism isn't available any longer and you could see how BK altered it to try covering his tracks but he got badly nailed on it. And Hunter's post was the best where he shredded all of BK's lies and misrepresentations. But it's been deleted by the Mods.......so this this turd wants to recreate the facts........what did Brian originally call this.... oh yeah, "Revisionist History".

Here's the bottom-line......Honesty is a full time virtue and BK only has part time morals that deserve public condemnation.....BK when are you going to walk the talk and leave quit the Forum as you stated???????????????
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classiccues

classiccues

Don't hashtag your broke friends
Silver Member
If you list something for price A and DO NOT DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU LIST IT, and someone says I will take it. Then you find out its worth X, you should honor your first posting. Unless its a legitimate typo.

This is akin to listing something well below value just to gage "interest", then list at a higher price. Its a scumbag move, plain and simple.

JV
 
bassin91

bassin91

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't believe you were most certainly given a gift by the moderators when your original post was deleted and you thought it was a good idea to post again about it.

It amazes me when grown men cannot admit when they may have done something wrong. Why is it so hard for some to take accountability for there actions and own up for a mistake.

It is not that you can't sell to who you want. If you perceive an issue with a member than sure don't take a chance and sell to them. But that is not at all the issue here. The issue is that you changed the rules in the middle of the game. You got greedy and traded your reputation for a couple extra bucks. Step one is owning the mistake. Learn from it. Move on with you life.
 
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alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dom_poppa said:
Cliff Notes to the OP's saga......

1.) Puts a case for sale for $200

2.) A buyer PM's him that he will take it.

3.) OP finds out that he can get more so he decides to let it go to the best offer.

4.) OP then goes to say he didn't expect to get $100 for it.

5.) OP goes and EDIT his original sales post and jacks up the price to $250
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That's baloney, should list it without a price if he wasn't sure. On the other hand there are people I wouldn't want to deal with.

I have a Schon SL-6 with two shafts which I no longer use and wouldn't mind selling but I've seen to much drama/bullshit develop in the wanted/for sale forum so if I sell it it will probably be in a pool hall. That way the buyer can hold it, shoot with it, roll it, and I get cash on the spot.
 
cuesblues

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
alstl said:
That's baloney, should list it without a price if he wasn't sure. On the other hand there are people I wouldn't want to deal with.

I have a Schon SL-6 with two shafts which I no longer use and wouldn't mind selling but I've seen to much drama/bullshit develop in the wanted/for sale forum so if I sell it it will probably be in a pool hall. That way the buyer can hold it, shoot with it, roll it, and I get cash on the spot.
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Now I'm gonna have to go see what an SL-6 looks like>>:smile:
I agree that the best way to sell a cue is in person, however I have seen quite a bit of drama in the pool room over cue deals.
One time a guy went out to his car to get a Whitten case that we made a deal on, and on his way back to my table he made a better deal with someone else.
Now that I think about it, I'm going to call him and give him some crap, even though it happened several years ago.
The difference is that in the pool hall you just blow it off as typical poolroom stuff, but online these situation have always been considered unacceptable...especially on AZ.
 
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