IPT Promises

Well I wouldn't jump to conclusions until I heard and understood why the IPT chose to do it that way. The staff at the tournament seemed to be quite busy handling their various duties - perhaps the organization and payout of the players was better done all at once. The tone of your post also suggests that you're doubting the IPT even paying out.


Now, I'm sure that the IPT got a kickback/deal on the venue for producing ~200+ guests for at least 3-4 days. That's an absolute minimum. Only a handful stayed elsewhere. Most came in on Thursday/Friday for the mandatory Saturday player's meeting, and were there for at least 2 days of 1st round action - players did not know which day they were going to play on until the players meeting when the schedule was handed to them in their bags. I thought a player's matches would be spread over the 2 days, instead the groups were divided up. No one is going to schedule a checkout and flight the exact day they get eliminated, no one knows how long they'll be in and such a plan would be defeatist in nature - truth is, being so competitive and positive about winning, many players elected to stay the whole tournament believing they do have the chance to make it deep, and if not, at least watch the remainder of the greatest tournament ever.


Anyway, I'm sure 100% of the folks used the "player deal" to get the lower price on room at the Venetian, by doing so, the Venetian knows exactly how many people and how many days worth of business the IPT brought in. People have to eat and drink too...It must be awefully expensive to rent that massive (and beautiful) hall for the tournament....


I went to this tournament with a player and that player got paid on Sunday. I know a different player that got eliminated 1st round and left 2 days later - I can find out real easy if the IPT really mailed the check out. But seriously - why would they pay everyone on Sunday in FULL and somehow conspire to cheat or delay the other players payment via mail?


Guys, the IPT is for real (at least so far). Holding them to every single letter and detail is a little extreme and unfair. I think the spirit of the IPT's message is that players WILL GET PAID. Rather than get dragged out, ripped off etc...

Holding them to every single letter and detail is a little extreme and unfair.

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KT,

So, to make sure that the reputation of pool is actually enhanced from its previous dubious, less than stellar reputation, all the players at IPT events will be paid at the end of each round. We are working out the details and logistics, but the bottom line is when a player comes to the event, and if they lose and are knocked out of the tournament, the next day they will be able to walk into the cashier’s office and get a check for their tournament winnings

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They also said there would be no seeding at the first tourny.

Gabber

I think that was KT going off on his infomercial-esque sales pitch trying to convince the players and the pool world that the IPT is not another scam and is the real deal.


Remember the context in which this was said. These statements were made when everyone was laughing at the idea that someone would actually put up millions of dollars in prize money for pool. These statements were made in direct response to the well-known thievery of slimy tournament directors and other dirtbags who've pulled some stunts in the past.


Everyone was a skeptic at first, which made KT bring out the cash at the KOTH and at the North American Open (which also makes for good TV like poker did by pooring the money out on the table).


Who cares if the player can get their check the second the opponent pockets the last 8-ball, or if they get it at the end of the tourney, or if it is mailed to them. Hell, they ought to consider direct deposit! Would that make you guys happy?


All I know is the players GOT PAID. Where is the controversy here? You going to discredit and bash KT or the IPT because they didn't follow what he said exactly to the letter? It is foolish to think that because the IPT and KT aren't doing exactly what he said at one point, that that automatically means that he/they is going to reverse much larger claims or promises.


I'm not saying it can't happen, but you can't use this as an indicator.


I was there at the tournament and the PLAYERS (you know, the only people who have a legitimate concern over payment matters) were really happy to get paid. I'm sure some 1st round knock-outs were annoyed not to get their check right away. Oh well. Go home. No one said it was mandatory for them to stay for $179 a night till Sunday. They could go home and they'll get their money in the mail. In fact, many did go home and they'll get their money.


I honestly don't think the staff was prepared to handle payouts during the tournament - they were completely overwhelmed with handling the tournament in the early rounds. Dealing with score cards, stats, updating the website, handling players and issues, running the score board, managing tables and other matters had them at their limits.


I don't think this was some great conspiracy to keep everyone at the hotel longer so the IPT could save money despite the chance that it might have benefitted the IPT.

Fair enough. I just don't think it was that big of a deal. Maybe KT doesn't think it is because he's not a poor pool player. Venetian was pricy. I'm sure he also just assumes it's no big deal since he's convinced the players are going to be making very good money anyway. Think about it. You're a billionaire and you're paying players thousands of dollars in a tournament - are you going to sit there and worry about their financial status in regards to selecting an expensive venue?

I like your ideas, but I doubt it can ever be arranged to pay the players 1/2 of their 1st round earnings. There has to be some incentive for the players to at least come to and play the 1st round in its entirety.

Some players shared rooms to keep costs down, but that's beside the point. I saw a bunch of the Filipinos heading toward the Imperial Palace when I was at Harrah's - so they must have found cheaper lodging elsewhere.

I think it is a good thing that a lot of players stayed. It keeps the event looking busier and the players can help represent the IPT (provided they aren't in beach shorts and flip flops like some were )


So much for the dress code enforcement. The IPT said that all players are expected to follow the dress code when attending any IPT event, regardless of whether or not they were playing. Any event, meeting, appearance...anything - players must abide by the IPT dress code. I saw Ronnie O'Sullivan a few times wearing shorts, a hang out shirt, and thong sandals at the tournament. He wasn't the only one. Every player except a few of the old-timer HOF and Johnny Archer were violating the dress code badly by wearing sneakers, jeans and T-shirts. Johnny wore his suit and tie when he came to spectate.



ALSO, the IPT staff was absolutely NOT enforcing the VIP vs. General Admission seating. If you paid $20, you could sit anywhere and never get busted/moved. I saw dozens of people sitting anywhere. That's unfair to the people who paid for VIP tickets.



Given the lack of dress code enforcement, as well as seating...I'd have to guess that the staff was too busy running the tournament to also run same day payment for the players. Who knows, maybe they'll take note of that and bring more personel to the tournament in Reno. It took a lot to handle score cards and stats updating. They put a huge emphasis on the website coverage. Which is smart, since that's another avenue KT is exploring - subscription based web streaming of IPT matches.

The Referral money was paid to the players upon getting their first official scorecard of the tournament, contingent on the player having filled out the correct paperwork.

The money earned by IPT pros for Qualifier Challenge Match wins ($1,000 for each win - for NO entry fee)..... was paid to the players on-site on Wednesday.

At the KOH tournament all players were paid at the same time... presented with their checks and having their photos taken at the same time. I assume that either KT misspoke "end of each round" for "end of each tournament" or that they ran into logistical problems for paying at the end of each round. I do know that the Venetian was not going to cash all of the checks anyway as we were given the names of two banks locally in LV that would cash them.

This was a tremendous undertaking for this staff. It is a LARGE staff but everyone was busy and, I for one.... think they did an awesome job. For being their first full-fledged event it was very impressive. They went to great length to do this "as right" as it could be done, especially on short notice. Anytime you deal with renting convention space, anything less than 2 years is considered short notice and this was done on about 9 months notice, making it very impressive. Simple things like giving us correct lighting becomes issues. They went out of their way to hang lighting trusses to give us at least directional type lighting where we would have had none. These trusses (I can only guess) probably cost them an extra $20-$30,000 for the week. The last convention space I rented was less than 20,000 sq for 3 days and they wanted $5,000 for trusses there!

When you deal with large venues such as this, your proven track record is what will get you a better rate, etc... Certainly you realize that almost every single tournament you go to you will pay more when you book at the players rate. For instance, at the Riviera for the league events. If you are a player in the tournament your rate is like $70. However, if you are a player with their casino you pay only $25.... big difference. Only the rooms booked under the tournament player rate count toward the tournaments record with that hotel next year. If you have 1000 people at an event but only 100 of them use the player rate, you won't get a good deal next year either. I'm sure you understand how that works. I, for one, stayed elsewhere myself. I didn't have a room mate and the rate was a little much for me to stay by myself. In the grand scheme of things however, I didn't save all that much either by the time I paid for hotel room (peak nights) and rental car and/or cab. I can only venture to say that many ten's of thousands of dollars were spent by KT to secure this venue and if my room rate is a little high, so be it. I'm willing to give the tour an opportunity to grow and prove itself so that it can get better rates down the road.

This forum is a great place for people to vent and to ask questions. Many of the IPT players follow it and will gladly answer any questions we can. If we can't give insight, then maybe Deno will hear and answer. In any case, it usually isn't necessary to lend an accusatory tone to any of this.

This was a huge undertaking. This was the tour's first major event and I for one think that it went well. They made mistakes and they learned from them. Heck, their tournament director wasn't even there so they had their second string in! How many tournaments of this caliber (oh, thats right.... there are none) are run in this great fashion their first time?

Instead of questioning all of the wrongs, let's applaud all of the things that they got right.....just ask Thorsten!

Tammie Jones

Anytime you deal with renting convention space, anything less than 2 years is considered short notice and this was done on about 9 months notice, making it very impressive

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So KT and the IPT had 9 months to write 200 checks? 9 months to produce 200 checks with specific amounts [ the prize money has been long known] with only the name to be filled in and they couldn't handle it?

Either they are incompetent or they had the checks but wanted people to stay longer.

Gabber...knows BS when he hears it.

OPC said,

My point is this: if KT wants to run a first class pool tour, then he should establish a reputation for following through on his promises. He should also keep the players' interests more in mind when he stretches their costs unnecessarily with early arrivals and late departures.

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Good post and to the point.

Gabber

Gabber,

Your credit must be spotless, by your thinking the checks for you water, gas, electric, phone, car payments and house payments have already been written for the next 20 years. That's good thinking, hopefully I can adopt this method and never make a mistake.

Gabber said:

So KT and the IPT had 9 months to write 200 checks? 9 months to produce 200 checks with specific amounts [ the prize money has been long known] with only the name to be filled in and they couldn't handle it?

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He specifically mentioned 9 months as far as dealing with convention space, nothing to do with payouts. Don't put words into the guy's mouth.

And having done some convention work myself in the past, including running a couple of small ones (sci-fi cons, but still!), I can say that dealing with venues can be a royal PITA. They're out to screw you whenever you blink. They will tell you one thing, and put something else in the contract. They will change things on you at the last minute, knowing that your event is on the line, and that you'll take it (and pay the extra) rather than bag your entire event.

Typically when it comes to venue space and filling hotel rooms, venues will give breaks on the cost of the venue space based on the number of hotel rooms booked associated with your event. Depending on how many rooms get booked, sometimes the venue space can be had for nothing. I never experienced a hotel kicking back cash to the event producer via jacking up the room rates - if anything, I got discounts on the room rates (nothing much) for my attendees.

And for a very convention-centric venue such as the Venitian, I can see their schedule being booked up months in advance (hence, we return to the beginning of my post).

Bola Ocho said:

Well I wouldn't jump to conclusions until I heard and understood why the IPT chose to do it that way. The staff at the tournament seemed to be quite busy handling their various duties - perhaps the organization and payout of the players was better done all at once. The tone of your post also suggests that you're doubting the IPT even paying out.


Now, I'm sure that the IPT got a kickback/deal on the venue for producing ~200+ guests for at least 3-4 days. That's an absolute minimum. Only a handful stayed elsewhere. Most came in on Thursday/Friday for the mandatory Saturday player's meeting, and were there for at least 2 days of 1st round action - players did not know which day they were going to play on until the players meeting when the schedule was handed to them in their bags. I thought a player's matches would be spread over the 2 days, instead the groups were divided up. No one is going to schedule a checkout and flight the exact day they get eliminated, no one knows how long they'll be in and such a plan would be defeatist in nature - truth is, being so competitive and positive about winning, many players elected to stay the whole tournament believing they do have the chance to make it deep, and if not, at least watch the remainder of the greatest tournament ever.


Anyway, I'm sure 100% of the folks used the "player deal" to get the lower price on room at the Venetian, by doing so, the Venetian knows exactly how many people and how many days worth of business the IPT brought in. People have to eat and drink too...It must be awefully expensive to rent that massive (and beautiful) hall for the tournament....


I went to this tournament with a player and that player got paid on Sunday. I know a different player that got eliminated 1st round and left 2 days later - I can find out real easy if the IPT really mailed the check out. But seriously - why would they pay everyone on Sunday in FULL and somehow conspire to cheat or delay the other players payment via mail?


Guys, the IPT is for real (at least so far). Holding them to every single letter and detail is a little extreme and unfair. I think the spirit of the IPT's message is that players WILL GET PAID. Rather than get dragged out, ripped off etc...

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Everyone hopes the IPT is "real". I applaude their efforts and wish the IPT all the best.
I don't see where holding them to every single letter and detail is extreme and unfair at all. At times, it seems that the only predictable with them, is the unpredictable.
Pay them off and let them have some fun. End all the doubt and speculation.

Gabber: Why can't you run a tour yourself, so we all can learn how it is supposed to be???

I think we shold be grateful for the IPT, and for what they are doing for pool.

Of course there will be starting problems with running such a big event, but they will learn, and my guess is that they sure will improve. But the most important thing for IPT is to listen to the players. If the players complain about things, then it is important to listen carefully.

Gabber said:

So KT and the IPT had 9 months to write 200 checks? 9 months to produce 200 checks with specific amounts [ the prize money has been long known] with only the name to be filled in and they couldn't handle it?

Either they are incompetent or they had the checks but wanted people to stay longer.

Gabber...knows BS when he hears it.

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Maybe the IPT is like my clients when I was self employed, and L.A. PR Firm. that promised payment in 15 days. I was still calling for the money 6 month later. The check finally arrived in 8 months.

The P.R. firm contacted me for a job about 4 month later. I said 50% when I start, 50% upon Completion because you are a Slow Pay.

They were offended... Some business like holding on to their money...

Jeez----

Were you at a different player's meeting than I? You're not even close to what Kevin said. He SAID everyone would get paid on Sunday morning, the 30th between 11am and noon.

Bola Ocho said:

So much for the dress code enforcement. The IPT said that all players are expected to follow the dress code when attending any IPT event, regardless of whether or not they were playing. Any event, meeting, appearance...anything - players must abide by the IPT dress code. I saw Ronnie O'Sullivan a few times wearing shorts, a hang out shirt, and thong sandals at the tournament. He wasn't the only one. Every player except a few of the old-timer HOF and Johnny Archer were violating the dress code badly by wearing sneakers, jeans and T-shirts. Johnny wore his suit and tie when he came to spectate.

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Hi BO, It was nice meeting you at the tournament. I will have to say that Mike and I were in dress code every day. I brought 2 pair of jeans and never wore either pair the whole time we were there! Tyler Edey was also in compliance, however, we had to get on Stan and Mike Vidas for being casual. Stan wore a jacket over jeans and I asked him why he would risk getting kicked off the tour over a pair of jeans. After that, they came in correct dress code.

I think the qualifiers were more lax, possibly by not reading the rules or pushing the envelope, as they don't have a tour card at risk, but there was absolutely no excuse for a member not to be in compliance. There were some that felt so out of place at the player's meeting too, in jeans, T-shirts and flip flops!

It was the same at the KOH where we had assigned times to be at the autograph table. Most of the players did not honor that either. What is it with these guys? You hand them the biggest opportunity of their careers and they pick and choose which rules they want to follow? It makes me mad.

As far as the checks go, we got the referral bonus checks right away (for all those that signed up and did not have anyone referring them). This all went into a big pot and was divvied up amongst the members.

The challenge match checks were distributed Wed. and the tour results checks were paid out on Sunday before Finals, just as he had announced at the player's meeting. The referral bonuses for actual referrals that are meant to go to you will be paid out when they get back, as they still had Q's going late in the month.

It was being bandied about that KT actually did not want the casino to cash our checks because he wanted to make sure these pool players got home with the money to book flights and hotels for the next one instead of gambling them away in the casino. This is hearsay, but it does make sense.

Grady said:

Were you at a different player's meeting than I? You're not even close to what Kevin said. He SAID everyone would get paid on Sunday morning, the 30th between 11am and noon.

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I'm hoping that you aren't referring to what I said, Grady. I was just responding to something that an earlier post had mentioned that KT had said much earlier when the tour was forming. I heard the same thing that you heard in the players meeting and was fine with that. As a matter of fact, I don't think that any of the players who were at the event felt misled at all.....we were all told very straightforwardly how the event would proceed and how things would be handled. Way, way more than I've gotten at some other events!

Sorry to hear about your bad call, though..... had a questionable one myself but alas... no one wanted to hear me b*tch either!! You couldn't pay me to be a ref, FWIW. Maybe next time the rolls will go our way!

See you in Reno.

Tammie Jones

Getting the kinks out!!!

* Like Kevin T said before. The IPT is in its Infancy stage and there will be some changes along the way to get this tournament where it needs to be and I think it is unfair for everyone to keep bashing the IPT when some changes are made they will get the kinks out.

* Remember in 2007 the players will be garneted 100K in earnings even if they never win a game. I don’t see any other pool tour making that deal with the players.

* Most of the bashing on this forum is coming from people who will never play good enough to be an IPT member so what’s the problem?

* I will never play at that level so I am stuck being a spectator. I will just sit back and enjoy the action because in my 15 years in the pool business I have never seen Money Action Like this.

* Do you think the PGA went of without some changes, I doubt it.

* I only hoped they would broadcast there show on FOX SPORTS, ESPN or NESN that’s more mainstream for the United States.

* Lets See what the 2007 season brings, and remember Kevin did not force players to join so if there not happy they can give up there Tour Card and go back to playing in the Little League!

* As for the bad ref calls that hapens in every sport for years and its harder to be a ref now than ever before. Everyone has a better View that the ref with all the cams so its easy to sit back and say BAD CALL but there only Human.
(Mabe all sports should use the cam view and two way radios to make the call and that would keep people from making a mistake that could change the outcome of the Event)

* Great Job KT and all the IPT staff.

Grady said:

Were you at a different player's meeting than I? You're not even close to what Kevin said. He SAID everyone would get paid on Sunday morning, the 30th between 11am and noon.

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Hi Grady.

Nobody quoted from a players meeting. I think the quote was from a press release or FAQ from the website posted at some point in the past.

Kelly

From what I have heard it does sound like it was a pretty impressive start, not perfect but still far better than what has gone before.