Question about Grip

tonythetiger583

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than .......

A "loose grip" is a problem for many players.....I'd highly recommend a "controlling grip," much like you would use with a hammer so you can utilize your hand/wrist action properly.

From my experience the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than anyone could possibly imagine.

The Game is the Teacher.com


I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?
 

juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm having a bit of trouble with my grip.

I'm keeping a loose grip with my main points of contact being mostly the thumb, index finger and to a lesser degree the middle finger. As I pull back my pinkie to middle finger splay out and away from the cue.

I'm noticing that in my follow through, there reaches a point in my pendulum swing where the butt hits the palm of my hand and I can't follow through any further. Is that ok?

This is a pretty good video to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA05wRcRhwc even though his hand position seems a little forward of where it should be, which could also lead to the problem you feel you are having.

Edit: By not having your hand in a position to where you strike the cue ball at 90 deg,. the only way you will feel like you get through the ball is by dropping your elbow.

It really comes down to, if the grip you are using changes the up or side to side delivery of the cue. Depending on your body type your swing should finish when A: your hand hits your torso somewhere; or B: when your forearm hits your bicep.

To give you an extreme, I sometimes have a bigger gap between the but of my cue and the top of the V that is formed by my pointer finger and thumb. I have some back issues, so when I can't physically get down on the shot as far as want, I can compensate my ideal grip to get my cue level, which is very important to build consistent shot patterns.

Grip is mostly personal to me. If you keep the things in mind that was addressed on the video, you will be fine.

Happy shooting:thumbup:
 
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juspooln

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A "loose grip" is a problem for many players.....I'd highly recommend a "controlling grip," much like you would use with a hammer so you can utilize your hand/wrist action properly.

From my experience the "loose grip" and "long follow through" has ruined more pool games than anyone could possibly imagine.

The Game is the Teacher.com

Interesting thought on "loose grip" ruining plays,which made me half to respond to your comment. I HIGHLY value your opinion and wanted to get a little more thought on why you feel that way. While I agree about the exaggerated follow through, I see most amatuer players that do start with a great loose grip tighten up half way through the delivery, which alters cue path. I have only personally run into two players that were trying to tighten their grip and pre engage or slow down their wrist action. One was Tommy Kennedy and the other wasn't a real known player. I still have to guess, in pool, just like golf, most still grip it like they are holding on to a big Harley and could benefit with a consistent loose grip.

Speaking of Harley, he once showed me something years ago where he would put an object ball on the bottom short rail by the first diamond closest to the pocket; put the cue ball 6 diamonds up a half diamond closer to the long rail and spin it in.

The trick he showed me to consistently make it, was to keep a close to level cue and tighten up the grip to make the cue ball deflect more which allowed the cue to come into the ball with a little more angle.

Do you think because of how you prefer TOI, it leads to your grip you use?

P.S.again I am just trying to understand so I can become a better teacher:grin:
 
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BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I agree with CJ. You need to have somewhere between a cradle with all the fingers and a firmer grip. The palm smacking action you have may indicate you are making the wrong wrist movement/direction with the forward stroke. Have an instructor look at your stroke and stance. Once you have a perfect stroke and stance you can be confident with a very light grip as well.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.
 
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(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.

I am thinking it is because you have to use your thumb and if you let your wrist fall down straight, your thumb lines up with your index finger.
 

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have yet to hear an explanation as to why using the thumb and index finger as the main pressure points of a grip is beneficial. This is regardless of whether you use a loose or controlled grip.

Can anyone explain the 'why' of the thumb and index finger pressure point grip?

My research has taken me in the exact opposite direction.

Maybe Lee Brett will chime in. He talks about it in his DVD.
 

pleforowicz

Registered
I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.
 

ps611846

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.

I agree 100%. The thumb causes a lot of problems in many players. They just have to find how to place their thumb to keep the stroke smooth. And maybe a left shoulder rotation will also help with this.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree 100%. The thumb causes a lot of problems in many players. They just have to find how to place their thumb to keep the stroke smooth. And maybe a left shoulder rotation will also help with this.

You mean like a "Come up and see me sometime" kind of shoulder rotation?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know who you are but I'll tell you a little about myself. I played on the women's pro tour for some 20 years. In later years I've had top 10 finishes on tour and a ranking in the top 16. My rank in earlier years at one point was as high as 5th. I studied the game for years and years and I've taught the game for a few decades now.

My research never led me to such a correlation between the right thumb and left shoulder. However, I am open to new and interesting information, so please, if you have definitive proof of this relationship, please post it, and your name as well as your experience in researching the game.

See, I'm a big believer in that whatever you discover, or uncover, it must work under pressure or it is of little or no value. Plus, if you're going to throw out theories in the ask the instructor section, you should be prepared to be challenged.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I have read on snooker forums that the thumb should apply no pressure at all and which fingers we use to hold the cue is a matter of preference - index fingers, first two fingers, or back fingers etc.

That sounds goofy. If the thumb touches the cue it is applying pressure. Do these savants recommend not touching the cue with the thumb? I know someone who recommends laying the thumb on the top of the cue. Would that work as well?

For the vast majority of top players the thumb is an essential part of the grip.
 

ps611846

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You mean like a "Come up and see me sometime" kind of shoulder rotation?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know who you are but I'll tell you a little about myself. I played on the women's pro tour for some 20 years. In later years I've had top 10 finishes on tour and a ranking in the top 16. My rank in earlier years at one point was as high as 5th. I studied the game for years and years and I've taught the game for a few decades now.

My research never led me to such a correlation between the right thumb and left shoulder. However, I am open to new and interesting information, so please, if you have definitive proof of this relationship, please post it, and your name as well as your experience in researching the game.

See, I'm a big believer in that whatever you discover, or uncover, it must work under pressure or it is of little or no value. Plus, if you're going to throw out theories in the ask the instructor section, you should be prepared to be challenged.

No big deal. Because everybody is different he has to find what to do in order to feel comfortable and have a smooth stroke. When I say "left shoulder rotation" i just mean watch Efren Reyes or Mika Immonen or Ronnie Alcano. These three play with their left shoulder rotated to the inside. Other players play with their left shoulder open.

About the thumb: the above three players when they deliver their thumb is not even touching the cue. It is out of the game.

My name is Panagiotis and I am from Greece. I study the game a lot. You don't know me, you might think I am a troll or an idiot. And I don't know you either. So I can also say anything about you ????

You are an instructor. This doesn't mean anything to me.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
understand the synergy created by the components of the hand, wrist, and forearm

One reason is a "loose grip" allows unconscious stroke alterations without the player being aware it's happening. I've seen this time and time again and it leads to inconsistency and frustration.

Learning the stroke with a firmer grip forces the player to understand the synergy created by the components of the hand, wrist, and forearm and how it connects the shoulder all the say to the tip......and the tip is what we play the game with, the only physical connection and therefore a vital one.

I have a routine in teaching the stoke that connects the shoulder, arm, wrist, and hand in such a way that even a slight movement of the shoulder will register in the tip (after the player is already down on the shot).....this is probably the best way to make sure the connection is correct and if you watch Shane closely he will do this as a part of his routine.

Once a player has a near perfect stroke they can loosen up and it won't be such a negative factor because there will be no need for unconscious alterations.

The Game is the Teacher.com





Interesting thought on "loose grip" ruining plays,which made me half to respond to your comment. I HIGHLY value your opinion and wanted to get a little more thought on why you feel that way. While I agree about the exaggerated follow through, I see most amatuer players that do start with a great loose grip tighten up half way through the delivery, which alters cue path. I have only personally run into two players that were trying to tighten their grip and pre engage or slow down their wrist action. One was Tommy Kennedy and the other wasn't a real known player. I still have to guess, in pool, just like golf, most still grip it like they are holding on to a big Harley and could benefit with a consistent loose grip.

Speaking of Harley, he once showed me something years ago where he would put an object ball on the bottom short rail by the first diamond closest to the pocket; put the cue ball 6 diamonds up a half diamond closer to the long rail and spin it in.

The trick he showed me to consistently make it, was to keep a close to level cue and tighten up the grip to make the cue ball deflect more which allowed the cue to come into the ball with a little more angle.

Do you think because of how you prefer TOI, it leads to your grip you use?

P.S.again I am just trying to understand so I can become a better teacher:grin:
 

pleforowicz

Registered
That sounds goofy. If the thumb touches the cue it is applying pressure. Do these savants recommend not touching the cue with the thumb? I know someone who recommends laying the thumb on the top of the cue. Would that work as well?

For the vast majority of top players the thumb is an essential part of the grip.

I'm not an instructor and I'm mediocre player at best but I am an avid reader of the snooker forum (TSF) because I want to learn the game and I am sure it has been mentioned by acclaimed instructors ( Nic Barrow, Terry Davidson) that the thumb should apply no pressure. From what I remember they actually claim that the thumb should sort of lightly touch the forefinger, rather than cue stick.

I myself struggle with grip and when I use the thumb in my cue action, the "ring" feels tighter comparing to 'only forefinger grip'. But I am obviously doing something wrong.
 

ps611846

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That sounds goofy. If the thumb touches the cue it is applying pressure. Do these savants recommend not touching the cue with the thumb? I know someone who recommends laying the thumb on the top of the cue. Would that work as well?

For the vast majority of top players the thumb is an essential part of the grip.

I have studied many top players. Many of them leave the thumb off the cue on the final stroke. And you can only hear the sound of the cue when the tip contacts the cue ball. They have "pure strokes". Efren Reyes is one of them. If someone thinks Efren uses his thumb he should pay close attention because he is wrong.

I can't say Cj is wrong. He has played the game at top level and his grip works really well.

But when I hear from other guys who they don't know or understand what I am talking about, this is very sad.

The position of the thumb can make a huge difference in someone's grip and stroke. You have to try everything and see what works. Footwork and shoulders also play their role to position the body correctly and allow for a smooth stroke.
 

ps611846

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You mean like a "Come up and see me sometime" kind of shoulder rotation?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't know who you are but I'll tell you a little about myself. I played on the women's pro tour for some 20 years. In later years I've had top 10 finishes on tour and a ranking in the top 16. My rank in earlier years at one point was as high as 5th. I studied the game for years and years and I've taught the game for a few decades now.

My research never led me to such a correlation between the right thumb and left shoulder. However, I am open to new and interesting information, so please, if you have definitive proof of this relationship, please post it, and your name as well as your experience in researching the game.

See, I'm a big believer in that whatever you discover, or uncover, it must work under pressure or it is of little or no value. Plus, if you're going to throw out theories in the ask the instructor section, you should be prepared to be challenged.

This is an example of what I "discover" or "uncover". And throw out some theories.... I didn't know "instructors" have the right to insult other players and students of the game. Really disrespectful.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYDMMw5TtE
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is an example of what I "discover" or "uncover". And throw out some theories.... I didn't know "instructors" have the right to insult other players and students of the game. Really disrespectful.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYDMMw5TtE

This is the ask the instructor forum. You are the one being disrespectful. You're not even an instructor and you gave advice in recommending a left shoulder adjustment in a thread asking about gripping with the thumb, and you have yet to explain why you recommended it. This is the kind of thing that messes up players' games and you don't even have the credentials to be accountable for what you suggest.


No accountability. Now aren't you the lucky one?

You may think I'm mean but I'm defending the players who come here asking questions. When they ask questions to instructors, they expect and deserve answers from people who are accountable for what they recommend.

You've got the main forum to be as unaccountable as you like.
 
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