I paid $2500 southwest cue that is warped !

kvinbrwr said:

I've seen SWs that bump on a table and are straight in a lathe and some that wobble in both and, of course, some that are straight in both. A SW wobbling on a table is no proof that it is warped, its something about the parabolic (whatever THAT is) taper. Doesn't mean your cue isn't warped, just that rolling a SW is a poor test.

Kevin

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Exactly, he might put it on the lathe and feel foolish about this whole thread and then actually enjoy the SW. Get to a cue maker and get it on the lathe, we are all waiting for a video showing if its straight or not.

justabrake said:

Kevin, As soon as I rolled it looked up and down and all around and made my oppion what it is I confronted the seller and he confirmed it is the nose forearm of the cue he said it here.

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Put in a lathe, please. This stuff is just like arguing the authenticity of a Buska, you can talk until you are blue in the face but if Tasc says it is, then it is, he says nah, then its not. Nothing matters but what Tasc says. With a SW there is one test, and that's a lathe. The seller also said it was straight, straight with a wobble, that kind of confused talk is fairly typical of trying to describe a SW. I'm not saying it will spin straight, but what are you going to do if it does?

Thanks

Kevin

cooler heads will prevail


again sorry if I was kicking AZ under the bus.

:sorry:

LSB

kvinbrwr said:

Whether it is warped or not does not matter.

If it is warped, when it warped doesn't matter.

If its just parabolic taper the buyer is objecting to doesn't matter.

Discussions about who is right, who is wrong, who is too picky, who is not picky enough doesn't matter.

Only one fact matters:

The buyer bought and paid for the cue sight unseen. That has to mean that the deal is not complete until the buyer is satisfied. The burden of satisfying the buyer always lies with the seller, and, if the seller can't convince the buyer to be happy through repair or adjustment, it is the seller's responsibility to unwind the deal and give the buyer his money back.

Please forget who is right and get to doing what is right.

Thanks

Kevin

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Very well said Kevin, that's the right way to do business. :clapping::clapping:

TATE said:

I don't roll cues to determine if they're straight. I showed you how I check each piece uing a flat surface and light, then if they're straight I can assemble them and turn them by sight to see if the joint is properly aligned.

I've dealt with Steven. He knows how to check a cue for straightness, so my assumption is the handle is indeed warped.

The problem is you have a cue made in one of the driest areas in the United States, Las Vegas, with 15% daytime humidity, and it lived in one of the most humid equatorial climates, Indonesia, with 80% humidity - where climate controlled homes are rare. In some parts of Indonesia, refrigerators are rare! By the way, about 30 years ago I beat all the players in Denpasar, so I am the Bali champion.

My guess is the cue is indeed warped and the seller is not adept at determining if the cue was straight.

Note in his original communications (Steven's first post) the seller acknowledges a wobble in the neck. That to me is the smoking gun. It's true that a parabolic taper accentuates any warp. he should have disclosed that the cue is not 100% straight as advertised.

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You say that you don't roll cues on the table to see if they are straight.

Well.......... everyone that buys a cue does.

I roll every cue I build and if it doesn't roll straight........ it doesn't leave my shop.

Kim

LoneStarBanker said:

cooler heads will prevail


again sorry if I was kicking AZ under the bus.

:sorry:

LSB

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LSB;

I think you'll find there is a core group of excellent people on az who are adept at sorting out problems like the one seen here. These guys have been there, done that, and have all the t-shirts. :wink:

I'm glad this is moving in a direction where both parties might find a good resolution.

Green rep tou you, duc, for stepping in to help. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

Kickin' Chicken said:

LSB;

I think you'll find there is a core group of excellent people on az who are adept at sorting out problems like the one seen here. These guys have been there, done that, and have all the t-shirts. :wink:

I'm glad this is moving in a direction where both parties might find a good resolution.

Green rep tou you, duc, for stepping in to help. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc

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Brian

I would like to point out that, regardless of whether the cue is warped or not, if there is a resolution its not coming from the seller. It looks like Duc is stepping up and bailing these guys out, but I don't see much movement to resolution from the seller.

I get that Ron had a great transaction with him and shared his opinion based on that transaction, that is what we all do, share opinions based on our experience, but its not how we act when things go great that counts. Everybody (almost) is stunning in those circumstances where things go smooth. Its how we act when it hits a snag that counts.

The seller seems to say the cue was straight but had a roll.

and

He sells his items as-is because everybody is always happy (which doesn't go too far with a guy who is unhappy).

I personally think the buyer here shares some responsibility, after all he paid in an at-risk manner without discussion with the seller what his position would be if things went wrong, and he still hasn't had the cue chocked in a lathe although lots of people have pointed out that SWs have some peculiar traits as far as rolling. However, I don't think the "punishment" for that is taking a $2500 cue he doesn't love up his butt with the seller telling him "be happy like everyone".

Thanks

Kevin

SW's are KNOWN for having some roll, i've never personally seen one that did'nt. Even Duc said in a post, "normal roll". If they all, or the majority at least, roll funny, what's to mention? If it rolls more than normal, then yes, it should be disclosed. Otherwise, normal SW roll should suffice, right?

Returns

Hell..you can send my cue back to me if you dont like the feel of it..the Buyer should always be right..i have never bought a dead straight cue in my life..dont think there is such a thing..so you have to be flexible with folks who are extreme on perfection..i would have just had him ship it back at his exspense of course..and refunded his money..done..

whammo57 said:

You say that you don't roll cues on the table to see if they are straight.

Well.......... everyone that buys a cue does.

I roll every cue I build and if it doesn't roll straight........ it doesn't leave my shop.

Kim

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I agree. And certainly with Simonis type cloth with no nap. If it rolls great on the table then it also does on the lathe. If there is a wobble and it sure will also wobble on the lathe. Rolling a S.W. on the table is no different then any other cue. The fore arm and pin with their compound taper will show light underneath when rolled but that is normal if it wobbles then thats different. After all how many cue makers copied their work and taper off of S.W. and DPK. Do they all have issues ? Because no one ever says they they have the usual roll-out or taper wobble. I have several and they roll great. If someone has one with a problem I would bet that the cue was not cared for properly during its life (like left in the trunk). I believe that in the past someone stated this false statements and then over the years people read it and then simply restate it thinking its fact. In other words "old wives tale" if you ask me. Just about every Meucci shaft I have worked on were warped but I don't see this stated about them.

That's wonderful.

I'd still never buy a cue from the seller. The way he approached the buyer's concern on the cue. "Everyone is always happy"

Still seems the seller wasn't interested in resolving anything or offering to refund the buyer. & that's my opinion to go along with my

Cheers,
LSB

For those SWs I bought or sold in the past 10 years, most of them are not dead straight. Most of them got a roll in the forearm close to the joint in a couple of months after they left SW's shop. Personally I think the taper of the forearm is the problem. All SW cues are 21mm on the joint. Unfortunately most SWs have fat handle and buttsleeve. With small joint diameter and fat handle, the taper of forearm has to shrink dramatically. That causes a weak point on the nose. It's just my theory.

Maybe I got lucky with the Southwest I used to own. Had NO roll when I bought it & NO roll when I sold it. :shrug:

whammo57 said:

You say that you don't roll cues on the table to see if they are straight.

Well.......... everyone that buys a cue does.

I roll every cue I build and if it doesn't roll straight........ it doesn't leave my shop.

Kim

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It just doesn't tell you much.

A handle can be warped or twisted and the cue rolls flat. A cue can be perfectly straight and roll with a wobble.

If you're a cue maker, you should know how to properly check a cue for warp and misalignment.

I check each piece of a cue for strightness, then I check for alignment. If anything is off not only do I know it, I know where and by how much, plus I know the cause.

I have said it many times. I have sold hundreds of cues and only had about 3 cues come back.

I honestly thought they were crazy but I refunded their money, less shipping (except once I forgot to tell the guy he had to pay shipping).

I always offer money back less shipping on everything I sell.

IMO if you dont offer that, then you have something to hide. AND those who do business with those who will not refund you deserve what you get.


KEN

Offering a refund if the buyer is not satisfied is the only way it should be done. I mean seriously, if the seller was in the same town as the buyer and they met in a pool hall, would the seller demand payment from the buyer without letting him examine it, and then only after the seller has left the premises? And would any buyer alive agree to this?

Conversely I've very rarely heard of a deal where the seller sends the cue to an unknown buyer up front, with the buyer's promise to send the payment when he's received the cue.

Because these transactions are long distance and the buyer doesn't have the opportunity to examine the cue first, the only right thing to do is offer his money back if he doesn't like what he receives.

DogsPlayingPool said:

Offering a refund if the buyer is not satisfied is the only way it should be done. I mean seriously, if the seller was in the same town as the buyer and they met in a pool hall, would the seller demand payment from the buyer without letting him examine it, and then only after the seller has left the premises? And would any buyer alive agree to this?

Conversely I've very rarely heard of a deal where the seller sends the cue to an unknown buyer up front, with the buyer's promise to send the payment when he's received the cue.

Because these transactions are long distance and the buyer doesn't have the opportunity to examine the cue first, the only right thing to do is offer his money back if he doesn't like what he receives.

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There you go making too much sense again. Great analogy.

By the way, I actually do get a number of cues sent to me for examination, then I pay. It always surprises me when someone agrees to it, but they do.

kvinbrwr said:

Please have this cue spun in a lathe before people say things they will later regret (not that that hasn't happened already). Its a SW, please spin it in a lathe and see if its wobbles before you are sure that it is warped.

Thanks

Kevin

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If it is straight and round, It will not wobble when it rolls on a flat surface. Period. There is no exception for South West cues only. Only a variance in straightness or roundness will cause a wobble. Let do away with the magical SW taper roll.